Blizzard confirms LFR is raiding.... so stop saying it isn't.

[ImpTaimer]

Kinda obvious OP. Nobody think LFR isn't raiding, because even bleeding-edge raiders abuse LFR as part of progression.

People who say LFR isn't raiding are the same people who pretend anything that isn't bleeding-edge endgame isn't content, and will defend whatever arbitrary difficulty slider that separates them from the masses.

Their opinion is worth nothing, and are more likely to regurgitate whatever e-celeb twitch-heroes project onto them, even if that person was caught cheating. They'll take sloppy seconds as long as it puts them on a pedestal above someone else.

Back before paid transfers if you were caught abusing master looter or guild hopping you were blacklisted. If you were caught exploiting or cheating you got immediate action taken against you. All toxic behavior perpetuated because Blizzard back-seat enforcing their own game so they can rake in the money now and banwave later in a vicious cycle.

What next? LFD not dungeoning because Mythic dungeons exist?

[Jtbrig7390]

Am i raiding if we are 6 ppl in a group afking in Stormwind or am i just IN a raid?

Ur not doing anything but afking.

You would have a argument if all 25 in LFR could AFK and finish it but they can't. So for those who are doing something they are raiding. If you afk in LFR ur not raiding, Just like if you buy a carry your not raiding.

For those doing the work they are raiding.

[Deleted]

during WOTLK first 6-7 ICC bosses was pretty faceroll on normal difficulty almost same as LFR, just cas LFR difficulty is different from normal/hc/mythic it doesnt mean that LFR is not raiding

And in theory developers can adjust LFR difficulty to same level as normal difficulty but with queue system.

No. A healer in crap gear couldnt go and tank the boss much less the adds.


Was it easier then it is today? Yes ofcourse. Everyone knows people are better at raiding aswell.

The only time LFR ever neared normal in terms of difficulty most lfr raids stimply coudlnt finnish wings and the rage was huge on forums

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Ur not doing anything but afking.

You would have a argument if all 25 in LFR could AFK and finish it but they can't. So for those who are doing something they are raiding. If you afk in LFR ur not raiding, Just like if you buy a carry your not raiding.

For those doing the work they are raiding.

But everyone has been arguing that raiding is anything above 5 people?

[krunksmash]

Its to late. The OP's gf is a mod on this site

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Am i raiding if we are 6 ppl in a group afking in Stormwind or am i just IN a raid?

In this example you are a raid but when AFK'ing you not not " raiding " as that term indicates taking action against and objective that has victory/defeat conditions.

[judgementofantonidas]

Its to late. The OP's gf is a mod on this site
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Well, doesn't that just ice the cake...................

[Notshauna]

My argument wasn't based on the location, where have you read that? My argument is on pure technical terms and objectively not arguable.

That's exactly what a PvE raid instance is a location. You're argument hinged on the fact that LFR takes place in a PvE raid instance which it does, that because it does occur there it's raiding. I then claimed it's not the location that defines what is being played there, rather the action. And as I said early LFR is missing the action of forming organization ergo it isn't the same action so it doesn't have to be a raid.

[Spunt]

Good man I will also sleep fine since Im a high end pvper for the last 7 years now. Our difference is, I don't mind LFR heroes. They re just people like you and me. You can't stand them like they re a plague. But ok dude whatever. I can only imagine how you feel when they buy boosts and get what you struggled for for free. Or do you imagine people will give a fuck and look at achievements. lol.

Are your jimmies rustled? LFR heroes aren't raiders.

[runique]

Not everything u disagree with is click bait or trolling.

When you post "incoming anger in 3 2 1", I'm pretty sure that should fall under "trolling" and "flaming". You literally made the thread to make anti-lfr people angry, even though Blizzard clearly separated it from real raiding difficulties.

[judgementofantonidas]

No god!
No god, please no! No! No! NOooooo...

It's not the raiding we knew for 8 years. 8 years of history have to mean something. I mean...who is LFR to think he can come in the game out of nowhere and say "Hey, i'm a raid bitches, deal with it"

Real raiders have a different opinion of what the R stands for in LF"R"

[Jtbrig7390]

But everyone has been arguing that raiding is anything above 5 people?

You are in a raid but not raiding.

Raiding implys action and your afk group isn't making one. Just like you wouldn't be raiding if you afked inside Mythic HFC. You are AFK, You are doing nothing.

[runique]

Ur not doing anything but afking.

You would have a argument if all 25 in LFR could AFK and finish it but they can't. So for those who are doing something they are raiding. If you afk in LFR ur not raiding, Just like if you buy a carry your not raiding.

For those doing the work they are raiding.

Is it raiding to join a group of 6+ to farm pocket fel spreader? You aren't afk and you are in a raid group. And if not, where is your subjective line drawn?

[Better]

LFR is raiding in the same way watching a movie from steam is gaming. You do both on your PC, you buy both on steam, you technically interact with both (pressing play). However you can't improve at watching that movie. You watch the movie once, maybe twice and that's really all there is to the movie, you won't experience it differently no matter how many times you may watch it. You're missing core elements of making that movie a game (The interaction/gameplay part). In the exact same way you're missing out on the social, and gameplay parts of raiding in LFR

[Jtbrig7390]

When you post "incoming anger in 3 2 1", I'm pretty sure that should fall under "trolling" and "flaming". You literally made the thread to make anti-lfr people angry, even though Blizzard clearly separated it from real raiding difficulties.

Saying something was going to happen isn't trolling ether. I knew it was coming because of the type of thread this is. Pointing it out isn't flaming or trolling.

[judgementofantonidas]

When you post "incoming anger in 3 2 1", I'm pretty sure that should fall under "trolling" and "flaming". You literally made the thread to make anti-lfr people angry, even though Blizzard clearly separated it from real raiding difficulties.

this. exactly this. if someone, anyone else posted a similar thread stating an obviously true but opposite viewpoint and ended it with "3 2 1 let the flaming begin" it would have been ended before the first response.

[Jtbrig7390]

Is it raiding to join a group of 6+ to farm pocket fel spreader? You aren't afk and you are in a raid group. And if not, where is your subjective line drawn?

If your in a group that is above 5 and doing something (For example farming Fel Spreader or pvp in stormwind) you are raiding.

If me and my 9 friends go to stormwind and raid it we are raiding.

Edit: Its the most basic of raiding but still raiding.

[Deleted]

In this example you are a raid but thing AFK'ing you not not " raiding " as that term indicates taking action against and objective that has victory/defeat conditions.

If you are in a lfr raid being carried by 15 mythic raiders(not feasable to happen but just for arguments sake). Mark(random lfr guy) is here with his newly dinged alt and he doesnt really know his rotation. For him there is no defeat condition. He is being outright carried, he doesnt know tacs, he ends up dying to standing in fire for 20 seconds and the mythic healers stop healing him.

He literally has no effect on the outcome of the battle, and singe you have 15 mythic raiders carrying him there is no defeat condition.

Is Mark raiding?

[Radeghost]

LFR is raiding, so is Molten Core. Both are piss easy now.

[MoanaLisa]

What difference does it make what you call it?

There's been this absolutely moronic debate going on for years about semantics. It's pointless.

[runique]

this. exactly this. if someone, anyone else posted a similar thread stating an obviously true but opposite viewpoint and ended it with "3 2 1 let the flaming begin" it would have been ended before the first response.

Yeah, and it is sad that (I believe) there hasn't been one infraction given out with all of the posts of people calling each other "retarded" and other personal attacks. Mods are just turning a blind eye to this thread.

[Pull My Finger]

That's exactly what a PvE raid instance is a location. You're argument hinged on the fact that LFR takes place in a PvE raid instance which it does, that because it does occur there it's raiding. I then claimed it's not the location that defines what is being played there, rather the action. And as I said early LFR is missing the action of forming organization ergo it isn't the same action so it doesn't have to be a raid.

But your argument is actually my argument - the action. You're in a raid group, tied into a cooperative effort to down raid bosses. That's it. Organisation is nowhere a technical prerequisite for raiding. It's something that people happen to do and something that makes the most sense and produces the best results for higher difficulties of raiding. But it's absolutely no technical prerequisite or an element of the objective definition. That's the big difference. I stick to objective, unarguable, technical facts, while you base your definition on social and playstyle factors, which are completely arbitrary and freely variable. My definition is the answer to the question: what is raiding? Your definition answers the question: what do you, in your opinion, consider "proper" or "worthy" raiding?

How about overgearing or zerging raids that don't pose a challenge any more? A lot of seasoned players did PUG, FFA Onyxia and MC raids on my server back in the day. Easy as hell, no organization, no nothing. Now raids suddenly turned into non-raids or what?