[WINDWALKER] 7.X Discussion thread

[Deleted]

can you confirm it increases it to 25%?

i never trust WoW wording when it comes to % increases.

it wouldn't surprise me if it increased the 10% by 15% to a wopping 11.5% or something. or changed it to 15%.

Babylonus is on of the most active on the Monk forum ,does a lot of TC for our communauty and admin our only site for WW ( www.walkingthewind.com if you want to look ) If he says something it's accurate in most case .

As a player of the Beta i tried this leg and i can confirme too it buff the speed from +10 % to +25% .

[Megabloks]

Spinning crane kick is not a channel anymore, it's just a buff that is applied to you that is not interrupted when you cast another spell immediately after. So all of this talk of Serenity and SCK taking more than 1 GCD is inaccurate.

[Purpleisbetter]

Spinning crane kick is not a channel anymore, it's just a buff that is applied to you that is not interrupted when you cast another spell immediately after. So all of this talk of Serenity and SCK taking more than 1 GCD is inaccurate.

Is that true?

I always have waited for the SCK animation to finish...

[Babylonius]

Spinning crane kick is not a channel anymore, it's just a buff that is applied to you that is not interrupted when you cast another spell immediately after. So all of this talk of Serenity and SCK taking more than 1 GCD is inaccurate.

WoWHead lists it as triggering a 1.5s GCD: https://www.wowhead.com/spell=101546...ing-crane-kick

[Lucrece]

I don't know, I'm enjoying Hit Combo because I feel like the Leeroy Jenkins with "GOGOGO 8 SECONDS ON MY HIT COMBO TANK MOVE!" on our runs. AoE feels pretty good.

SEF AI just needs to get fixed, wish the fixate thing was more responsive.

[Megabloks]

WoWHead lists it as triggering a 1.5s GCD: https://www.wowhead.com/spell=101546...ing-crane-kick

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=103985/...e-fierce-tiger

Monks have had a 1s GCD since implementation, the only time it was 1.5s for any ability was early alpha with SotW.

You can go test what I said in game with 0 haste.

[Xiaojin]

Yes, other Monk abilities, which WW shares with other specs, e.g., Tiger Palm, are flagged as 1.5sec GCD as well but get reduced by the hidden stance. So SCK might be the same. I never even tried anything but waiting for the animation to finish. Interesting thing to check: can you cancel the SCK animation early without losing damage.

[Megabloks]

Yes, other Monk abilities, which WW shares with other specs, e.g., Tiger Palm, are flagged as 1.5sec GCD as well but get reduced by the hidden stance. So SCK might be the same. I never even tried anything but waiting for the animation to finish. Interesting thing to check: can you cancel the SCK animation early without losing damage.

Yes I linked stance of the fierce tiger from wowhead and you can see the server side effect of subtracting .5 seconds from every abilities GCD. As for SCK you can cast other abilities and it will not cancel the effect. Ironically SEF used to work the same way with FoF since the clones FoF is not shortened with haste.

But I actually just checked and the clones seem to have a static 3.98 second fof cast time, and if you cast another ability even after yours ends, the clones will cancel their own, causing you too actually lose 1-2 ticks of FoF from each clone depending on your haste. This would probably also explain the gap I am still seeing between Serenity and WDP.

[pandanaconda]

That's very interesting, thank you.
For the most part testing won't really change the sample SCK rotations; however do you know how this works when chaining SCK's?

I was pretty sure this was indeed a channel as FoF is, therefore not affected by GCD restrictions. Plus as you mentioned, we've had SotW have its GCD higher in the past.


Amongst other things you can test; if you start a CJL channel, your clones will complete it even if you canceled it and proceed to do other things. Not as relevant, but they do seem to bug out a lot with channels (and some other things.)

I'll look again into that when I get back to a decent computer, thanks for input!

[Megabloks]

You actually can not cast SCK while you have a buff from a previous one, not that you would ever want to cast SCK back to back, but interesting none the less.

Also yea the CJL and the clone thing is how FoF used to work all throughout WoD, so I'm not sure how we got to this stage.

[pandanaconda]

Well, you know, that fringe case where you have 3-4 seconds left on serenity, 6 stacks of mark of the crane, RSK on cool down and you consider going SCK-SCK-SCK during serenity, dropping your mastery and hit combo...
Granted, with 40% mastery gear from dungeons and hit combo this is not really worth it, but remained a consideration if SCK could be used every second.

Ruhye is helping me test SCK's behavior, we're looking at potential ways to stop the channel early to get melee swing timer rolling but doesn't seem to work.


Funnily enough, yesterday I said "I wonder if players like Megabloks check this kind of articles."
I'll correct the rest asap; fwiw it'll only make things simpler

[Megabloks]

Yes in your scenario the 3x SCK would do a bit more damage immediately than SCK-BOK-SCK, but dropping your 8 hit combo stacks when you will probably be using FoF within the next 2-3 seconds, would probably still make the 3x SCK worse. You would also need enough haste to make SCK a 1 second duration in order to actually be able to 3x SCK, since you can not SCK with a current SCK buff.

Also I did notice as well that we can't auto attack during SCK as if it were a channel, even though it no longer is.

[pandanaconda]

Yep ruhye tried to cancel its animation with rolls/boks/others but its a no go.

As for the AoE serenity, wanted to know wether we could chain 1 seconds SCK without 50% haste, that's why I asked. As I said, it'll usually not be worth it and you'd rather weave in RSK/BoK to gain extra MotC, keep mastery/hitcombo but wanted the exact behavior to compare those scenarios.

- - - Updated - - -

With that into consideration, can you give your advice on this:

-in prepatch (fwiw), BoK is slightly superior to SCK on ST during serenity due to SDI+melee hits being stopped during animation
-in legion, despite transfer the power, SCK is likely better?


Addind a bit of context for legion:

-SCK single target (aka one stack of MotC) is 600% of AP, 660% with artifact trait but we're unlikely to unlock this one fast right now?
It also comes at the cost of 1.3-1.4 seconds of swing timers in most cases through the animation, which in our cases will likely add up to a bit more than swing timer, aka since weapon ilvl will always be a bit ahead of the rest of the gear, close to 100% of AP missed with both hands combined;
-BoK with dark skies is 443% of AP, plus transfer the power benefits which are very hard to gauge since they will depend on a lot of traits (Fists of the wind, number of such relics, ...), also because it's not sure those TtP stacks will be used during the 40% damage buff and because what the debs communicate as their intended power lvl for stacks (3%), what the hotfixes mention it should be (5% outside pvp) and the actual power of it on beta (1%) all differ. Depending on this BoK could either be quite significantly ahead of SCK (3% is easily 90% of AP) or behind.

Time will tell, in the meantime the difference is not much and in prepunch BoK>SCK on ST.

[Celede]

I was so happy when the Roll/FSK freezing fix went out, but the fact that it's still happening is growing even more frustrating then last week and the week before that.

[Hinalover]

Spinning crane kick is not a channel anymore, it's just a buff that is applied to you that is not interrupted when you cast another spell immediately after. So all of this talk of Serenity and SCK taking more than 1 GCD is inaccurate.

That is true. However in SimC it's extremely difficult to make it act like it's a channel when it is not. I would have to almost "kluge" stuff together in order for it to work as intended. So for SimC purpose I have it working like a channel just to make it easy on the system. Similar thing with Crackling Jade Lightning. It's not technically a channel like it is indicated in SimC but it works very similarly. Where it applies a debuff on the target and you channel into the debuff. However both Spinning Crane Kick and Crackling Jade Lightning interrupt auto attacks so in some ways it's not too far off to call them channels; even though technically they are not.

On the discussion of SCK and Serenity, you can't do anything while SCK is going though. So if you have less than 50% haste it's still going to last 1 - 1.5 seconds where you can't do anything. After it finishes channeling sure you can immediately cast another spell (Tiger Palm for example). However you just waisted 0 - 0.5 seconds of your Serentiy. An easy test to show this is to let Spinning Crane Kick go for the full duration and see that it hits 4 times. Try again but this time constantly spam Tiger Palm. You will notice you cannot cast Tiger Palm until after the 4th tick hits the target.

[Megabloks]

With that into consideration, can you give your advice on this:

-in prepatch (fwiw), BoK is slightly superior to SCK on ST during serenity due to SDI+melee hits being stopped during animation
-in legion, despite transfer the power, SCK is likely better?

Going to have to agree on the BoK being better than SCK during serenity for ST due to SDI.

If Transfer the Power remains at 1% per stack then SCK should certainly still be better, and if it does go to 3% or higher then monks will be absurdly broken and nerfed soon after, but Bok would probably be better than SCK.

Since it seems we will be going counterclockwise around the artifact we won't have the 10% SCK damage, but if they actually do fix or buff or whatever TTP then we might go clockwise again.

That is true. However in SimC it's extremely difficult to make it act like it's a channel when it is not. I would have to almost "kluge" stuff together in order for it to work as intended. So for SimC purpose I have it working like a channel just to make it easy on the system. Similar thing with Crackling Jade Lightning. It's not technically a channel like it is indicated in SimC but it works very similarly. Where it applies a debuff on the target and you channel into the debuff. However both Spinning Crane Kick and Crackling Jade Lightning interrupt auto attacks so in some ways it's not too far off to call them channels; even though technically they are not.

On the discussion of SCK and Serenity, you can't do anything while SCK is going though. So if you have less than 50% haste it's still going to last 1 - 1.5 seconds where you can't do anything. After it finishes channeling sure you can immediately cast another spell (Tiger Palm for example). However you just waisted 0 - 0.5 seconds of your Serentiy. An easy test to show this is to let Spinning Crane Kick go for the full duration and see that it hits 4 times. Try again but this time constantly spam Tiger Palm. You will notice you cannot cast Tiger Palm until after the 4th tick goes out.

I just don't know how you could find this to be the case since I've thoroughly tested this before I made any posts about it. But here is a log showing that you can indeed cast other spells while SCK is active.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...=1&view=events

Again, SCK is not really a channel anymore, it honestly just seems that not being able to auto attack during the buff is an oversight on blizzards part. You can even SCK and instantly roll and still see the SCK animation and damage happening

[Hinalover]

I just don't know how you could find this to be the case since I've thoroughly tested this before I made any posts about it. But here is a log showing that you can indeed cast other spells while SCK is active.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...=1&view=events

Again, SCK is not really a channel anymore, it honestly just seems that not being able to auto attack during the buff is an oversight on blizzards part. You can even SCK and instantly roll and still see the SCK animation and damage happening

Edit: I actually see what you are talking about though. Almost like Rushing Jade Wind but with auto attacks being delayed. Possibly a bug that I'll report. Because that is SIMILAR to RJW, I'll get that changed in SimC tonight.

[Neba]

Still considering what to raid with in Legion, WW being the strongest candidate at the moment, based on stuff like what my raid needs and how fucking cool everything monks do feels.

My one concern though is what things do you think a good monk can do to distinguish himself? It's certainly not a monk-only thing, but it feels like there's not a whole lot of room to change up your rotation based on trinket procs and such. Hit combo, the artifact's Fist of Fury boost buff and Energizing Elixir together with the abilities having no charges all kind of feel like they discourage you from pooling much chi/energy.

What does seem to require some thought:

• Bonus damage window from the artifact trait boosting Touch of Death (I think this one's a bit more inconsequential than it's made out to be tbh, how much damage can 10% of your damage in 8 secs on one target be after all).
• Storm, Earth, and Fire having 2 charges lets you save a charge for that special moment.
• Mark of the Crane! Potentially greatly rewarding, and I've really enjoyed the results. Only affects aoe though, which hasn't had a big role in raids in a while.

What else do you reckon a good monk will look out for aside from keeping hit combo and hitting the next ability when it comes up?

[Megabloks]

Mark of the Crane can be abused on at least one fight that I have personally tested, and that is Tichondrius. Coming out of the intermission phase you can actually have somewhere around 15-20 stacks, and that actually would make it the best button use even on a single target.

From a pure Patchwerk point of view, there isn't much any class can do to stand out more than someone else. Although monks currently are still one of a few classes that has to actually think about what you are going to want to do in the next 5-10 seconds to play completely optimally once you introduce any sort of aoe or cleave into the fight. If you saw an extremely well played monk in a mythic dungeon at the same time there was a average monk player, you would see what I am talking about.

[Neba]

Mark of the Crane can be abused on at least one fight that I have personally tested, and that is Tichondrius. Coming out of the intermission phase you can actually have somewhere around 15-20 stacks, and that actually would make it the best button use even on a single target.

Awesome!

Mark of the Crane reminds me a bit of Rogue's Marked for Death in that in the right conditions the damage potential from it is absurd but reaching that full potential requires a lot of awareness and effort. With the exception that Storm, Earth, and Fire lets the Monk reach that potential much, much easier a few times in a fight. Similarly I'm afraid Blizzard will target the ability with their occasional "no fun allowed" policy and nerf the max stack count or something.