Addons won't be able to access player position in 7.1

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

I like addons that provide ease of access and better UI, but when addons start becoming mandatory Blizzard needs to step in. Iskar Assist should have been hotfixed non-functional the moment it became mandatory.

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Is that sarcasm or legit?

the iskar assist is a non issue, you could add the debuff to your raid frames and just have people watch raid frames for debuffs instead.
Many raid frames addons (like VuhDo) can even make individual raid frames change color depending on conditions, like a debuff, so for example I could make it so that those in my raid that has any specific debuff would turn out Purple (or any other color). All Iskar Assist did (Exorsus Raid Tools) was to make it easier by everyone getting the same addon instead of everyone altering their raid frames. The big problem with the current addons and WA scripts is when they show you positioning- almost to the power of AVR back in WotLK, this issue is very easily spotted in Archimonde where the addon(s) break the encounter mechanics by trivializing them.

[Fynzie]

Even if paragon didn't used a Radar strategy, they were scanning the live combatlog on everyframe to assign numbers because the cast order tell you who will be targeted by the X-th cast of the wrought chaos and it is still very reliant on odd stuff. Doing mythic archimonde with purely visual addons for buff/debuffs and tracking stuff was obviously impossible. But the fight was not tested a single time internally so...

It's a good thing to remove those parts of the API but they may be fool enough to make another impossible mechanic because they don't test anything themselves.

[Deleted]

The big problem with the current addons and WA scripts is when they show you positioning- almost to the power of AVR back in WotLK, this issue is very easily spotted in Archimonde where the addon(s) break the encounter mechanics by trivializing them.

So maybe Blizzard should stop relying on positioning as the main focus of the boss mechanics, because they are utterly trivial if people know where to be?

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

that sucks it wont make game harder but simply less comfortable

during WOTLK we had no problems with having addons like DBM

DBM isn't getting removed...

[Gorsameth]

that sucks it wont make game harder but simply less comfortable

during WOTLK we had no problems with having addons like DBM

Your memory needs checking.

Blizzard nuked the AVR addon during Wrath, they are doing this change because it is pretty much the same thing.

DBM/Bigwigs itself is not the problem.

[Gorgodeus]

Yes you talk about BOTS and I talk about ADDON-LIKE Functionality.
Illegal?! Are you so freaking stupid? They maybe against the ToS but FAR from illegal.

They don't "affect" WoW, they just read visuals and display visuals on an overlay. Like a TS3 Overlay so you can see who is talking, doesn't affect the game in any way shape or form.

Stop acting like a douche. Illegal, as in not something Blizzard will allow. Any 3rd party program that is used to affect how you play the game is bannable. Period. A TS overlay affects TS, not WoW. It is not used in any fashion to help you actually play WoW. Why bring up bullshit such as that?

And btw: Illegal is the correct term

not allowed by the rules in a game
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/illegal

[Wild]

Good thing. So people will start using their brain and not just follow colors, lines adn sounds from Addons.
Some Addons have become almost cheats!

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

So maybe Blizzard should stop relying on positioning as the main focus of the boss mechanics, because they are utterly trivial if people know where to be?

Positioning and awareness are two skills that should matter in raiding, the addons/WA scripts for Archimonde took almost all of that requirement and threw it out the window.

Addons should filter information and make it clear for you, like tracking buffs/debuffs or timers for whatever. Thinks you could track without addons but becomes more "readable" with them. Addons should NOT give you information you wouldn't otherwise find by your own power, like knowing the exact position of the other 19 people in your raid to a pin point accuracy.

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Your memory needs checking.

Blizzard nuked the AVR addon during Wrath, they are doing this change because it is pretty much the same thing.

DBM/Bigwigs itself is not the problem.

Correct, Blizzard has no issues with Bossmods tracking timers of when things are set to happen. That we could do with a ingame stopwatch ourselves but an addon makes it easier. AVR and the newer addons/WA scripts show us things that we could NOT do ourselves and that's the problem that they're trying to fix.

Addons should be a choice that makes things easier to read/track, they shouldn't become mandatory... which is why this is now being shut down and rightfully so.

[Deleted]

Positioning and awareness are two skills that should matter in raiding, the addons/WA scripts for Archimonde took almost all of that requirement and threw it out the window.

Addons should filter information and make it clear for you, like tracking buffs/debuffs or timers for whatever. Thinks you could track without addons but becomes more "readable" with them. Addons should NOT give you information you wouldn't otherwise find by your own power, like knowing the exact position of the other 19 people in your raid to a pin point accuracy.

Sure, but if only 20% of the mechanics rely on these skills the encounter is still hard with the addons. The fact that the entire fight is trivial with these addons show that they over-rely on this ONE skillset.

So if the accuracy is key, make the information fuzzy. The position get's a +/- 10% so you are never really save.

[Deleted]

Bots automate game input.
AddOns that just give a visual hint what to press next are fair play.

We are not talking about the visual aid doing anything more, then just displaying the information AddOns currently can.

Addon is a LUA script running inside the Wow process, accessing information available in the WoW API.
You are talking about 3rd party program - which is just as illegal as rotation bot.

The reasons anyone would use your "visualdisplay 3rdparty program" are exactly the same as using a rotation bot. Gaining unfair advantage.
Which is why it's not going to be used any more than rotation bots are used today.

Why are we still discussing this? It's completely irrelevant to the topic.

[thilicen]

So many people are terrified of this because they know they are pretty much fucked without said addons holding their hand.

[Deleted]

So many people are terrified of this because they know they are pretty much fucked without said addons holding their hand.

I think people are more "terrified" to see encounters with a heavy focus on positioning and them often wiping because some people weren't far enough apart. Which is not hard to do once you get it right, but the time it takes until you get the radius around your character right in your mind will just be mindnumbing.

Or people start putting tape on their monitor so get a good estimate of the distance

[Delekii]

Sarcasm. They said in the interview they will still make fights like Arch and shit (they referenced Gul'dan for this) where you still have to move to a certain spot and shit like with Wrought Chaos.

I'm pretty happy with this change. Shits gonna get a bit harder now.

What they say and what they do are not the same thing. There is no chance in hell that raid complexity will remain the same in a post-addon change world.

[Deleted]

What they say and what they do are not the same thing. There is no chance in hell that raid complexity will remain the same in a post-addon change world.

Always expect the worst outcome. Because then the worst-case is, you were wrong and everything is better then you ever hoped it to be.

[Deleted]

Most hardcore raiders actually seem to think this is a good change. If anything it'll make things harder for more casual players.

Lol i do not think so; In a perfect world where all the members of a 20-man mythic core would be hardcore and skilled players, this change would be a non issue, but i am sure there are a lot of mythic raiders in this thread so i ask them, is everybody in your core like this or do you have to rely a lot on not so skilled players to fill your roster if you want to raid at all?.
I still remember the problems a lot of cores had when they banned players who were using combat routines.
But yeah, sure, if you have a full roster of hardcore/skilled players this is a very minor problem, if it is a problem at all.

[Holofernes]

Yea compare the number one guild in the world to the massive amount of plebs that play the game.
Hint a big chunk of those plebs actually manage to complete a big portion some times the whole mythic content with the help of those addons that blizzard are removing.

I can tell you for sure you would be seeing far less gorefiend/archi kills without WA's radar or exorsus raid tool.

Do you guys even know why those raidtools exists? there is russian progress guild. for its progress it has coders, that write addons for the raiders to help them beat the encounters. After a while, when they are through the content, they release the self-made addons they used for progress to the community as a kind service.

Top progression guilds runs a bunch of addon-coders. and this is something were blizz said its going to far, because beating wow should come down to better in-game activity, and not having more or better programmers.

[Gorgodeus]

Do you guys even know why those raidtools exists? there is russian progress guild. for its progress it has coders, that write addons for the raiders to help them beat the encounters. After a while, when they are through the content, they release the self-made addons they used for progress to the community as a kind service.

Top progression guilds runs a bunch of addon-coders. and this is something were blizz said its going to far, because beating wow should come down to better in-game activity, and not having more or better programmers.

Yeah, same with the EnsidiaFails add-on. Lotta top guilds had their own coders specifically for this reason.

[Deleted]

Do you guys even know why those raidtools exists? there is russian progress guild. for its progress it has coders, that write addons for the raiders to help them beat the encounters. After a while, when they are through the content, they release the self-made addons they used for progress to the community as a kind service.

Top progression guilds runs a bunch of addon-coders. and this is something were blizz said its going to far, because beating wow should come down to better in-game activity, and not having more or better programmers.

So block addons in raids while it's considered progression? Why kill it for ALL players, when they say the main problem comes from the progress players?

[Ebalina]

Do you guys even know why those raidtools exists? there is russian progress guild. for its progress it has coders, that write addons for the raiders to help them beat the encounters. After a while, when they are through the content, they release the self-made addons they used for progress to the community as a kind service.

Top progression guilds runs a bunch of addon-coders. and this is something were blizz said its going to far, because beating wow should come down to better in-game activity, and not having more or better programmers.

You just said nothing in that entire post.
Those addons exist regardless of the way or the purpose they were made for.

They are here they have been here for years.
No one cares what for or how they were created point is they have been a helping crutch for the community and now you are taking away that crutch "cause reasons" its like taking the wheel chair away from a disabled person....... its not good for your community.

[Gorgodeus]

So block addons in raids while it's considered progression? Why kill it for ALL players, when they say the main problem comes from the progress players?

They are not killing anything. They are removing what they see as a detriment to the game, and what is making encounters easier than they would like. Great players will adapt, while average ones will be average.