Would it be a mistake to main beast master ?

[Azortharion]

But that's kinda beside the point? The thing is, it was used exactly because you had the burst.

Yeah, but it doesn't have that burst anymore, and it can still only hit 1-2 thirds of what Marksmanship can.

[tyrindor]

If you want to completely min/maxed to OCD levels than Azor is the guy to listen to. The amount he spends on theorycrafting in a week is likely more than most people do in a lifetime. The average player should not take his guides as law, but only as advice and understand from a competitive mindset like his, it's "Rank 1 or nothing".

With that said, if you are the 99.9% who play the game to have fun and don't care about Rank 1, then BM vs MM isn't as big as some players make it out to be. If your not in a US50 or better guild, then go with what spec you want to play. A guild worse than that really shouldn't care about 10% single target, and if they do consider getting a new guild that understands they aren't a world first guild.

I am going BM because I feel the pros outweigh the cons for a start of an expansion. It's better in Mythic+ dungeons. I also can't stand MM when soloing due to mobility. Most the first month will be soloing and mythic dungeons, so it's a no brainer for me.

[Poppincaps]

I feel bad for the OP. His thread got completely hijacked. So, to reiterate, MM's longer cast times, less often burst windows, vulnerability to LOS, and lack of executes make it an inferior spec to BM in PVP.

It gets more CC than BM, but there are other classes that bring CC and an overall better kit in comparison to MM. Whereas there are few other specs that burst as well as a BM hunter as often.

[Merie]

It is a burden to be Melee in WoW by design. Think about that before deciding what to main spec.

[Deleted]

This is wrong, DPS will always matter and whether you play top 10, top 100 or top 100000 is irrelevant.
You misunderstand what progress raiding is.. it's not a "top 100" thing.

It's also flat out wrong if you say that no one outside of top guilds will give a damn about what you play or how much DPS you do.


OP however is asking for PvP anyway and he doesn't care about PvE himself, so... like I said before, I'd recommend BM and I think outside of larger BGs it's better than MM. MM is most likely alot better in stuff like Alterac though, unless it becomes a "rush the endboss" thing again @ 110, which will most likely be the case.

You missed the point, the problem is simply that a lot, really A LOT of bad/mediocre players are playing in the top 100- 500 led by even more terrible raidleaders who often have absolutely no idea about classes and simply follow class memes. For those players and raids it will almost make no difference if they play BM or MM and most of them will just perform better with BM, because it is the easier spec and allows them to focus more on the ongoing game mechanics when trying to progress through mythic. Yet, because of all the pseudo elitism throw around, like you do yourself, those players will pick up to MM and feel good and believe themselves superior when in realilty they might have picked the superior spec but will underperform due to being 30 apm plebs.

Of course DPS will matter, but don't believe players will automatically perform better, dealing more dps, simply because they picked the better spec. That is just so very wrong, especially in such a game as wow.

The real question should be which spec lets YOU perform better. You will almost always do more dps with an easy spec you have fully mastered instead of a hard spec which you cannot play.

[Geran]

Even if that was true, so what? If a guide is correct, then it is correct.

I experienced today a situation that can be applied here:
Someone wanted to get to a place i was blocking (space limited), so... he says "Out of my way" ,
this made me enervate, but as i was blocking him i move and let him pass, but... not before telling him that if he asked "Can you let me pass?" would have resulted in the same conclusion and he would be more polite.

Being right is not the ONLY thing that matters.


BTW, reading you in this topic makes me hate you, dunno if you had a bad day or so, but better if we all try to be polite to each other (at least try, even if we dont succeed).

[eathdemon]

that is the question, and also very hard to do withn sims, but which spec suffers less from none perfect play? aka none needed movement, missing a proc now and than, not using a skill right on cd.

[Azortharion]

I experienced today a situation that can be applied here:
Someone wanted to get to a place i was blocking (space limited), so... he says "Out of my way" ,
this made me enervate, but as i was blocking him i move and let him pass, but... not before telling him that if he asked "Can you let me pass?" would have resulted in the same conclusion and he would be more polite.

Being right is not the ONLY thing that matters.


BTW, reading you in this topic makes me hate you, dunno if you had a bad day or so, but better if we all try to be polite to each other (at least try, even if we dont succeed).

The guide isn't shouting at you that you're an idiot.

[Indigenously Abled]

Man, I wish I had these kinds of fans. You all know you'd buy Azortharion's book if he wrote one, don't even front. Get off his nuts, nobody is obligated to be nice to anyone. The assholes here are the dicks in white-knight suits, defending poor play and championing for the overly sensitive.

- - - Updated - - -

I am having no trouble whatsoever keeping up with or surpassing marksman hunters on my equivalently geared beastmaster at this time.

That means their level of play is suboptimal.

[silverstarzs]

That means their level of play is suboptimal.

Everyone's level of play is "sub Optimal". It is rather a question/matter of how sub it is. Azor seems to have suggested that a LOT of mythic hunters are very sub, as he suggests their beta logs suck and thus mean little because 'they play bad'. Thus you need to be real honest with yourself whether you are going to be able to play MM significantly better than all these other mythic hunters.

And BM has better burst, so in short fights could/would be better even at 'optimal' play - that in part is what some of the legion beta normal/heroic logs show.

[Tart]

somehow i doubt thats how you speak to people face to face. way to take earnest questions and turn it into a platform to highlight your anti-social maladjusted behavior.

He's very, very arrogant.

[Azortharion]

Everyone's level of play is "sub Optimal". It is rather a question/matter of how sub it is. Azor seems to have suggested that a LOT of mythic hunters are very sub, as he suggests their beta logs suck and thus mean little because 'they play bad'. Thus you need to be real honest with yourself whether you are going to be able to play MM significantly better than all these other mythic hunters.

And BM has better burst, so in short fights could/would be better even at 'optimal' play - that in part is what some of the legion beta normal/heroic logs show.

The logs are primarily useless because of the gear-iLvl gap, player skill is a factor too but it's only like, 10% of the big picture.

[Speedlance]

Azor, how much % better would you say MM is infront of BM on singletarget? I know there isn't a realistic number you could give me since there is some RNG involved everywhere but give me your best guess if possible.

[Azortharion]

7-10% but that figure is irrelevant.​

[Speedlance]

7-10% but that figure is irrelevant.​

Ok, I'm chasing the BM dream but I find resistance everywhere, guess I'm forced to play MM yet another raid tier :P

[Azortharion]

I don't get the "yet another time" rhetoric. The Marksmanship spec is -completely- new, it has almost nothing to do with pre-Legion MM other than the name, so for all intents and purposes it is a "new" spec. Of course, you might not like that.

[eathdemon]

I will go mm, but I do wounder if the mm/bm thing will end up being the farel/boomkin thing from back in the day. aka farel did more damage in sims, but was so much harder to play that most players did more damage as boomkin

[Azortharion]

Yeah, no, Marksmanship isn't -that- hard.

[Barnabas]

I'm going to play bm in arena and idc what nonsense sim you think can simulate that lol.

[Deleted]

Would it be a mistake to main beast master if I intend to play a lot of PVP in Legion?
I don't care about how they are not considered a serious choice in pvE and choose to play bm due to the fantasy.
However my experience of bm in pvp this patch has been bad. Has anyone had good experiences this patch in pvp with bm?
Thoughts?

Yes BM are strong in pvp if you enjoy playing it you should go for it