I dont see many survival hunters around

[Deleted]

Clearly you did not play vanilla, survival was the best spec for dps once you hit like 400+ agi and the melee talents were great for pvp to finish off people when they got close. As a hunter this was my favorite iteration, when we had a bit of both ranged and melee. There were even quite a few full time melee hunters in serious raids thanks to nightfall procs. In vanilla BM was the least played for raiding and pvp.

Well geared melee Hunters in Vanilla where strong, especially against other melee in pvp.

[Nere]

Why so much whining for survival being melee? Hunters still have 2 specs that are ranged so just stick to them and let people who always wanted a melee hunter play survival. I swear to god most people here behave like survival is the only spec available to hunters, stop complaining and play what you want.

[Deleted]

im maining surv hunter atm, having a lot of fun in PVP!

[Bepples]

Clearly you did not play vanilla

Better luck next assumption.

survival was the best spec for dps once you hit like 400+ agi and the melee talents were great for pvp to finish off people when they got close. As a hunter this was my favorite iteration, when we had a bit of both ranged and melee. There were even quite a few full time melee hunters in serious raids thanks to nightfall procs. In vanilla BM was the least played for raiding and pvp.

"While not the highest DPS build out there, Survival adds many things that can make being a hunter a lot of fun." (Ten Ton Hammer)

"[Lacerate] was the Hunter's only melee DoT. Its damage was worse than a Rank 4 Serpent Sting, because of this it was considered the worst Talent in the game, let alone worst 31 point talent in the game. Very few people ever took it for anything other than a joke." (Wowwiki)

"[Counterattack] limitations: You MUST parry an attack before this ability is open for you to use. The damage doesn't scale with weapon damage, attack power or any other attribute.[/quote] (Wowwiki)

"Personally, I see survival as the least important of the three. Mostly because, if you have to rely heavily on your melee abilities... you're doing something wrong." (Allakhazam)

Yeah, sounds like a great spec.

[Deleted]

Clearly you did not play vanilla, survival was the best spec for dps once you hit like 400+ agi and the melee talents were great for pvp to finish off people when they got close. As a hunter this was my favorite iteration, when we had a bit of both ranged and melee. There were even quite a few full time melee hunters in serious raids thanks to nightfall procs. In vanilla BM was the least played for raiding and pvp.

This post is wrong on soooooooo many levels.

[Ilir]

stop being butthurt.

Survival was meant to be a melee spec since Vanilla.

Survival beign a melee spec is the best thing that could have happened to Hunter.

[Deleted]

Better luck next assumption.




"While not the highest DPS build out there, Survival adds many things that can make being a hunter a lot of fun." (Ten Ton Hammer)

"[Lacerate] was the Hunter's only melee DoT. Its damage was worse than a Rank 4 Serpent Sting, because of this it was considered the worst Talent in the game, let alone worst 31 point talent in the game. Very few people ever took it for anything other than a joke." (Wowwiki)

"[Counterattack] limitations: You MUST parry an attack before this ability is open for you to use. The damage doesn't scale with weapon damage, attack power or any other attribute. (Wowwiki)

"Personally, I see survival as the least important of the three. Mostly because, if you have to rely heavily on your melee abilities... you're doing something wrong." (Allakhazam)


Yeah, sounds like a great spec.

Raptor Strike was really, really high damage potential in PvP. And you were constantly in Melee range as Hunter in Vanilla so that "if you are in melee range you are doing something wrong" is just wrong. It was pretty good in PvP and had very important abilities to buff your survivability and melee abilities.
You'd jump through enemies and attack with a raptor strike, drop a trap, wingclip the next time and/or use counterstrike to root the enemy.

It supported the melee abilities hunter had to offer and there were plenty of them.

If they had made Lacerate do damage, it would've been even better, because unlike MM, you didn't purely rely on your frost trap, so dots where actually okay, you had enough roots.

[Bepples]

stop being butthurt.

Survival was meant to be a melee spec since Vanilla.

Survival beign a melee spec is the best thing that could have happened to Hunter.

Really? Because a whole lot more people played survival before 6.2 than now.

Raptor Strike was really, really high damage potential in PvP. And you were constantly in Melee range as Hunter in Vanilla so that "if you are in melee range you are doing something wrong" is just wrong. It was pretty good in PvP and had very important abilities to buff your survivability and melee abilities.
You'd jump through enemies and attack with a raptor strike, drop a trap, wingclip the next time and/or use counterstrike to root the enemy.

It supported the melee abilities hunter had to offer and there were plenty of them.

Or you could kite properly and almost never be in melee range ever.

Seriously, hunter's primary strength was ranged and whenever you got to melee the primary thing to do was to Wing Clip and get out of melee because your melee abilities were weak and you took more damage there.

Survival buffed melee; the weaker aspect of hunters. And it buffed it in pretty small ways too; talents weren't substantial at all back then. The only abilities in the Survival tree sucked. You were better off going Marksman for pretty much anything. Aimed Shot could be ridiculous if you got it off, and you could kite pretty well too. Because Marksman worked well with the actual strengths of the Hunter class, unlike Survival. This is why patch 1.7 changed Survival to range-focused, and after 2.0 survival effectively became ranged-only. It was a sort of wierd, pointless support role until 3.0 where it got some cool other abilities. Survival just worked better and was more popular as a ranged class.

[Deleted]

You couldn't (always) kite and melees had gap closers just as they have now.
If you were able to kite melees without ever going into melee, it was the melee who was bad.
Trap, Stun, Trap etc. is something you can do reliably in a duel, but not in real PvP.

You'd always use melee abilities, even against mages, you just wouldn't remain at melee, because the CDs where too high.

Raptor strike was so strong, it was basically a instant melee aimed shot (which had 3s+ cast time and you couldn't move while casting it)
Arcane shot had a CD and the only other instant was Multi shot.

But what does it even matter, they had the melee tree and that means they always thought about doing melee stuff for hunters, they just didn't manage to tune it right.

[threads]

stop being butthurt.

Survival was meant to be a melee spec since Vanilla.

Survival beign a melee spec is the best thing that could have happened to Hunter.

yea idk why people argue about it so much still.

useless melee spec is good because we only have to keep up with 2 artifacts instead of 3.

[Deleted]

You couldn't kite and melees had gap closers just as they had now.
If you were able to kite melees without ever going into melee, it was the melee who was bad.

You'd always use melee abilities, even against mages, you just wouldn't remain at melee, because the CDs where too high.

Raptor strike was so strong, it was basically a instant melee aimed shot (which had 3s+ cast time and you couldn't move while casting it)
Arcane shot had a CD and the only other instant was Multi shot.

You cloud kite melees, Conc shot had 20% stun chance which was pretty good when it happen, also cheetah, traps, not a lot of classes cloud catch you at start.
Raptor strike ISNT instant melee attack, it was 140 bonus dmg (at last rank) to your next melee hit. Also multi shot isnt instant in vanilla it had 0.5s cast time.

[Deleted]

Conc had 12s CD, Your next melee attack is always instant because there is no "delay" (0,5s, which is a guaranteed swing) as the first Autoattack is instant, it also didn't use a GCD.
2h weapons did more damage than bows too, which is why it was such an amazing ability, especially with rank pvp weapons. (or BWL loot weapons)
And multishot was pretty much instant, and you could basically do it whenever you wanted to autoattack, which wasn't "instant" either and couldn't be done on the move.

I guess "you couldn't kite" is the wrong statement, I was basically trying to say that there was nearly always a point where you could make use of your melee abilities, because the enemy forced, or rather allowed you, to do so.

What I'm saying though is that Survival was very melee oriented and it had a lot of talents that were similar to Arms Warrior and Combat Rogues.
I don't know why we are still discussing this, this is just how it was... it was horrible tuned, but you could say that about a lot of speccs in Vanilla. Ret pally for example, or even feral druids.

[Deleted]

Not rly, multishot cloud clip your auto shot, also you have to stop even for 0.5s its still a stop. Also as Nelf when i ganked in searing i always was starting with meld -> aimed->auto->multi.
I had 2.2k crit with eye of nerub on greenish 60 but still if u are in melee range only to cast raptor strike - you are doing it wrong.

[Deleted]

No but you were in melee because that's the nature of PvP and could cast these abilities for another heavy burst hit.
Again, not sure why we are discussing this. Survival was 80% about melee abilities and melee combat. Parry, dodge, roots, extra crit for melee abilities, traps - which are melee too, parry procs, dodge procs, slow resists.

Not rly, multishot cloud clip your auto shot, also you have to stop even for 0.5s its still a stop

But that's how you kited in Vanilla... and even later.

Mages and Warlocks would also move/blink into melee, and Raptor strike was the only way to punish that.
Hunter deadzones became even more of a problem in BC when Hunter lacked any sort of melee combat ability that did any amount of meaningful damage. That was not the case in Vanilla.
Everyone who did PvP (or the vast majority), would spec into Survival because they needed these abilities to get back to range and root them.

[Deleted]

Well in tbc deadzone was reduced to 5yd and you cloud cast traps in combat too, which was a good boost. Also mana was a waaaay less problem in TBC + aimed shot healing reduce effect. I think in pvp hunters always had a good set of skills.

[Penguintamer]

stop being butthurt.

Survival was meant to be a melee spec since Vanilla.

Survival beign a melee spec is the best thing that could have happened to Hunter.

Survival was designed in Vanilla with a lot of melee utility and abilities in mind, but they didn't put enough work into it. Then the spec was mostly forgotten in BC, only to actually get some half-decent ranged abilities in WotLK. Then it was intensely bug-ridden with crazy Quality of Life issues all the way until the last patch of Cataclysm where most of them were fixed and it was playable. It was never a fully functional melee spec. They had that idea in Vanilla but never went through with it. I don't mind it being melee now, but it definitely wasn't a real melee spec back then.

[Ilir]

Survival was designed in Vanilla with a lot of melee utility and abilities in mind, but they didn't put enough work into it. Then the spec was mostly forgotten in BC, only to actually get some half-decent ranged abilities in WotLK. Then it was intensely bug-ridden with crazy Quality of Life issues all the way until the last patch of Cataclysm where most of them were fixed and it was playable. It was never a fully functional melee spec. They had that idea in Vanilla but never went through with it. I don't mind it being melee now, but it definitely wasn't a real melee spec back then.

"was meant to be a melee spec" =/= "was a real melee spec"

[Luko]

It's just not fun. I wouldn't care if it was pulling top spot damage, I still wouldn't play it. It's spammy, ugly and just generally feels out of place. This coming from someone who's been asking for a "Rexxar" spec for about a decade now.

Just totally disappointed with their lack of vision. Honestly, it feels like they threw a shitty, half finished melee hunter at us so we'd stop bitching about it.

[Deleted]

Well they cloud make it semi-range throwing axes or something like this, that would be a way better, we already have enough melee specs.

[Deleted]

It's just not fun. I wouldn't care if it was pulling top spot damage, I still wouldn't play it. It's spammy, ugly and just generally feels out of place. This coming from someone who's been asking for a "Rexxar" spec for about a decade now.

Just totally disappointed with their lack of vision. Honestly, it feels like they threw a shitty, half finished melee hunter at us so we'd stop bitching about it.

How is it spammy? It has downtime, similar to how rogues had/have to wait for energy. The spec feels extremely well done and complete. It's even better with the artifact and once you get one of the legendaries it's get even better than better.
I'd never have thought that I'd see a hunter complain about having a "spammy" spec.

Harpoon is also one of the most satisfying gap closer I've seen in WoW

I wish Carve wouldn't cost as much focus though.