5 man raiding? Sorta-ish?

[Chillson]

Even non raiders will out gear Kara relatively quickly and if Kara doesn't have the keystone system as well it will quickly become stale, as most content always becomes.

There are many ways Blizzard can make content relevant outside of gear. Karazhan could come equipped with a mount, toys, pets, transmog, or even a new illusion skin. They could add a pet battle somewhere in the dungeon with unique rewards. All of these things would keep people coming back to the instance well beyond its initial lifespan. Not everything needs to have gear attached to it, although that seems to be the trend with most new content these days.

[beanman12345]

BRD sure felt like it took multiple days to finish

it did. i remember early vanilla taking a weekend to full clear the place. but then it has more bosses than any raid, then or now, it was way too big.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I'd argue the difficulty progression in MC+, which Kara won't contain according to the Slootbag interview, is more akin to raiding, in difficulty scale if nothing else, though the scale is clearly smaller.
It's clear that they like the idea of 5-man content as a valid progression path, but I think the 5 man aspect is what defines it as a dungeon rather than a raid. That seems to be how they view it anyway, given the announcement of a 9 boss 5 man as a dungeon, when Emerald Nightmare has 7 bosses.

[Onomatopoeia]

it did. i remember early vanilla taking a weekend to full clear the place. but then it has more bosses than any raid, then or now, it was way too big.

I did it all in a day once. Took hours and would never want to do something like that again. Mara was also long if you choose to do it all at once, and you could, it was just better divided that BRD.

[stomination]

Good point, but its stressed that this isn't intended as a quick run. It follows a raid format unlike a current Mythic dungeon.

Blackrock depths was a long run as well. Some Bc dungeons also were longish.

[nazrakin]

They were long, but mostly due to there being shit tons of trash that you spent a relatively long time kiling since you were likely CCing and taking each down one by one. In fact, most of those BRD bosses themselves were just named trash mobs.

[stomination]

This thread is why a lot of discords believe mmo-champion is full of crap.

[primalmatter]

Do you mean five man progression in terms of difficulty?

I don't think they will ever be raids but they have been trying to bring back progression five mans since tbc.

[stomination]

Do you mean five man progression in terms of difficulty?

I don't think they will ever be raids but they have been trying to bring back progression five mans since tbc.

Mythic + was the answer for that. Kara is more for a story and getting ppl back. I wonder how long its been since Kara went out live.

[primalmatter]

Mythic + was the answer for that. Kara is more for a story and getting ppl back. I wonder how long its been since Kara went out live.

I could google it but im lazy...

Its been roughly 10 years though give or take a bit.

[stomination]

I could google it but im lazy...

Its been roughly 10 years though give or take a bit.

2007-01-09 Almost looks like it will be really close to a 10 year anniversary.

[Berndorf]

I don't think there is any intention for 5m dungeons to replace raids or become the new raids at all. I think 5m mega dungeons may simply become a standard between major raid thing though once or twice per expansion if players seem to really enjoy the new Kara dungeon.

[grexly75]

Where did I say or imply that it was?

As quoted from your OP..

At first I was bothered by Kara switching to a 5man until I read that and now I think its a pretty cool concept.

You say so yourself that you were bothered by it.. When as the poster you quoted said that Karazhan 10 is staying put, Blizz are just creating another version of it for a 5 man dungeon..

[RedNight at MMOC]

Mythic Dungeons still have (and Mythic+ Dungeon Keystones will have) a weekly lockout. Karazhan is described as a "mega dungeon," so it is larger than a regular dungeon on purpose - it is not going to replace the current raiding model. Do not forget that 7.1 (Return to Karazhan patch) will also include a "small" raid (talking about the number of bosses, not the actual group size of the raid).

And Blizzard has gone on record stating that players can still access the Karazhan raid, just like we can still access Outland through the Dark Portal (just talk to the bronze dragon at the north entrance to the Blasted Lands from the Swamp of Sorrows and set the Blasted Lands to pre-Warlords of Draenor).

[zephid]

a standard dungeon doesn't have a week lockout.

- - - Updated - - -



a standard dungeon doesn't have a week lockout. my point is, things are changing and this is something we've never seen.

We hadn't seen any kind of lockouts on dungeons before they implemented the 24 hour lockout on heroic dungeons in TBC.

The problem with the idea of 5 man raiding is the fact that you would severely limit the amount of mechanics a boss can have. When designing a boss for a raid Blizzard knows that the odds are fairly good that X class(es) will be represented, and because of that they can design a mechanic that relies on X class(es) being present. They can't do that when it comes to a boss in a 5 man dungeon. That's why a 5 man boss will always be simplistic in its design. Not to mention that every encounter would have to be doable with only one tank and one healer, further limiting Blizzard's design options.

[Perkunas]

We hadn't seen any kind of lockouts on dungeons before they implemented the 24 hour lockout on heroic dungeons in TBC.

The problem with the idea of 5 man raiding is the fact that you would severely limit the amount of mechanics a boss can have. When designing a boss for a raid Blizzard knows that the odds are fairly good that X class(es) will be represented, and because of that they can design a mechanic that relies on X class(es) being present. They can't do that when it comes to a boss in a 5 man dungeon. That's why a 5 man boss will always be simplistic in its design.

They had to homogenize the shit out of classes during Wrath and Cata just to get competitive 10-man going. Can you imagine how drastic it would be for 5-mans? Jesus, we might as well make them generic templates for each major role and turn classes into a skin for spell and gear appearance at that point.

[Aydinx2]

Where did I say or imply that it was?

At first I was bothered by Kara switching to a 5man

There. There you did.

[Kryos]

Vanilla Style megadungeons but with epic rewards (like T0.5 UBRS) would be the best way IMO.

[Echo of Soul]

It all depends on the rewards. If the gear from Karazhan is good (perhaps 875+?) I think it'll be a huge success. If the gear is bad (like 850) I don't think it'll be well received.

[Perkunas]

Vanilla Style megadungeons but with epic rewards (like T0.5 UBRS) would be the best way IMO.

The crying would never cease. Can you imagine the tears from the LFRtards because they can't queue for it... Wait that's already happening.