Artifact Knowledge EXPLOIT - Help Fix It

[Deleted]

Just FYI, "quite rewarding", "quite cool" and "feels like leveling past level cap" are very subjective per person and class. For instance, on Ret it's a nuisance and doesn't feel rewarding in the least bit. Though most classes are pretty much flat damage increases. To me that isn't rewarding, that just shows they wanted it baseline, but decided to put it behind a gate to separate the crowds.

I think thats a reductive way to look at it. I experienced it in the beta and every one of my activities felt the more rewarding. It wasnt a journey to 110 and then you were done. It continues and you can keep developing your character without just increasing ilvl.

So, i think the poster should experience it and give it a chance rather than dwell on the pains of how to maximise it for the most insignificant of gains.

Sure, if you have played it and disagree, that is up to you. As a fellow Ret i can relate to the fact that the Ashbringer tree is not very exciting, but it doesn't stop me from feeling like i'm progressing my character. Of course, i can just be cynical and say this is all stuff i would get at max level and now they just gate it behind this system. But, its a new expansion, new systems, new class design. Just because something was given for granted before, it doesn't mean it can't be made into something more engaging.

Also, it won't be separating any crouds. Theres a variery of content for everyone that awards AP and the multiplier system garantees you don't fall behind unless you stop playing for an extended period of time.

[Lucetia]

Of course, i can just be cynical and say this is all stuff i would get at max level and now they just gate it behind this system. But, its a new expansion, new systems, new class design. Just because something was given for granted before, it doesn't mean it can't be made into something more engaging.

Except the problem is that a vast majority of it is stuff we have gotten in the past. Each expansion takes away stuff we got and finds a way to revamp it into new rewards (ie Draenor Perks and artifact). There's nothing compelling to it or makes it feel "legendary" to the weapon.

Also, it won't be separating any crouds. Theres a variery of content for everyone that awards AP and the multiplier system garantees you don't fall behind unless you stop playing for an extended period of time.

The separation is not everyone will have high Artifact Knowledge, not everyone will be going out of the way to get AP. In raids you will still have different crowds. Those who have been playing "hardcore", "mediocre" and "barely". Yet your damage is impacted way more than gear would have it.

[OrcsRLame]

Out of curiosity what is the gear level on it? All I could find was 845 for mythic.



I added up every quest last night and it was just shy 8k not sure how you got 2k more (this was with zero artifact power).

Anywho, 9950 AP in 6 hours. Let's say a competent premade dungeon group of mythic raiders at ~865 ilvl can do 1 dungeon every ~6 minutes. Some will be shorter, some will be longer, mainly because of RP, (Halls of Valor says hi) I think a fairly average amount of AP to get per dungeon is 265. That assumes 3 Jewels of Victory, which may be a tad on the high side, but since you're killing so many mobs you have a decent chance of getting some Brief Histories of the Aeons, which are another 100, and sometimes you get rare spawns and chests in the dungeon that give an extra Jewel of Victory.

I wish I was as lucky as your numbers show. I usually only walk out of the dungeon with 1 AP boosting item. The rest is just the game laughing at me =/[/QUOTE]

The gear for CoS/Arcway is base 840 as far as I'm aware. The same is true for all mythic dungeons. At mythic level 10, the base ilvl is 865. The chest you get at the start of each week drops base 880 gear if you cleared a level 10 the previous week. Any piece of gear from any source can Titanforge up to the maximum available in the game, which is 850 pre EN, and after that if I'm not mistaken it's 895 during EN and 920 during Nighthold.

So theoretically with god tier luck you could get 895/920 versions of all the CoS/Arcway gear. The catch is that it's unlikely. The theory behind it though, is you're relying on the law of large numbers. With mythic+ you have a theoretically unlimited amount of gear that you can get per week. About 12-15 pieces per person in a 5 person group, and after that you can swap people out one at a time for new keystones from alts, guild members and even pugs if you're good enough to carry up to about +12. Assuming it's equal chance for the keystone to random any dungeon, you have about a 20% chance of getting CoS or Arcway. Realistically, you're looking at about 50-100 pieces of gear per week in total, so about 10-20 pieces of CoS/Arcway gear. Worth it? Maybe, maybe not. I personally lean on the side of it being a little too lucrative.

That's also why I say you want to unlock this shit ASAP. Faster unlock means more chances at big dick titanforged gear before the real progression begins. As for the Suramar AP, not sure why our numbers are different. I calculated it by looking at the chapters I have completed on beta, and I compared that to the meta achievement. I may have made a mistake, you may have made a mistake, idk, it's not important. Either way the numbers still show that what we've been saying is correct.

[Lucetia]

The gear for CoS/Arcway is base 840 as far as I'm aware. The same is true for all mythic dungeons. At mythic level 10, the base ilvl is 865. The chest you get at the start of each week drops base 880 gear if you cleared a level 10 the previous week. Any piece of gear from any source can Titanforge up to the maximum available in the game, which is 850 pre EN, and after that if I'm not mistaken it's 895 during EN and 920 during Nighthold.

That's what I figured, but didn't one of the last few posts say you can't do Mythic+ until raids are out? If that's the case then CoS/Arcway wouldn't be netting better gear before raids.

That's also why I say you want to unlock this shit ASAP. Faster unlock means more chances at big dick titanforged gear before the real progression begins. As for the Suramar AP, not sure why our numbers are different. I calculated it by looking at the chapters I have completed on beta, and I compared that to the meta achievement. I may have made a mistake, you may have made a mistake, idk, it's not important. Either way the numbers still show that what we've been saying is correct.

I'm wondering if it's because the beta has changed so many times that it might be showing more ingame until it's patched? Not sure, but like you said the numbers aren't that drastic.

I'm in the ballpark of "Stop making mountains out of ant hills" on this one. (Not at you, to the ones saying it's an exploit, etc)

[Deleted]

i dont like the feeling of skipping content to maximize efficiency. why would they implement such a mechanic? it would be fine for me if you could obtain knowledge from quests, dungeon, raids - so it feels like you actually do something to get better. why would you even want that feature if ANYBODY can ALWAYS do it with same effort, just by hitting a button and waiting a couple of days? whats the point of that knowledge system anyway then?

[Lucetia]

i dont like the feeling of skipping content to maximize efficiency. why would they implement such a mechanic? it would be fine for me if you could obtain knowledge from quests, dungeon, raids - so it feels like you actually do something to get better. why would you even want that feature if ANYBODY can ALWAYS do it with same effort, just by hitting a button and waiting a couple of days? whats the point of that knowledge system anyway then?

Except in reality you aren't really maximizing. You'll gain at most a rank advantage before raids start, but you'll be lacking your 3rd relic trait which gives you basically that rank you lost anyway.

Artifact Knowledge makes it easier to gear up your other specs so you aren't feeling penalized for picking a main spec and your raid or group might need your offspec and you be completely weak. It's also there also a catchup system for later in the expansion (like all things).

[Lillpapps]

It's not necessarily intuitive, since at first glance it seems like an obvious flaw in our system that if you wait until Knowledge Level 20 (a month and a half longer) to complete that quest, it'd give over 70k AP instead of 10k. Aren't you "wasting" 60k AP if you don't do that? The key here is that everything is relative. That Suramar quest capstone reward is equal to ~5 world quests. It'll be equal to 5 world quests if you do it ASAP; it'll be equal to 5 world quests if you do it two months later. And it'll contribute roughly the same amount towards whatever trait you're working on at the time.

This is the key part of the blue post. You are actually gimping yourself by not doing the quests early and gaining the power from the artifact. It will contribute just as much if you don't wait as it will if you wait. Everything else in the game will also give a lot more AP so there is no point in waiting with the Suramar quests.

EDIT: To add an example. Say the base of the Suramar token is worth 15 times more than a token you get from a heroic dungeon boss. This means you need 15 heroic dungeon boss tokens to be worth the same as the Suramar token. Even at artifact knowledge 25 you will still only need 15 heroic dungeon boss tokens to be equal the Suramar token if you have waited to get it. Heroic dungeons will be much quicker to farm at the gearlevels you will be at artifact knowledge 25. Meaning it will be way more worth to get the injection of artifact power early than to wait for it.

[Lucetia]

This is the key part of the blue post. You are actually gimping yourself by not doing the quests early and gaining the power from the artifact. It will contribute just as much if you don't wait as it will if you wait. Everything else in the game will also give a lot more AP so there is no point in waiting with the Suramar quests.

EDIT: To add an example. Say the base of the Suramar token is worth 15 times more than a token you get from a heroic dungeon boss. This means you need 15 heroic dungeon boss tokens to be worth the same as the Suramar token. Even at artifact knowledge 25 you will still only need 15 heroic dungeon boss tokens to be equal the Suramar token if you have waited to get it. Heroic dungeons will be much quicker to farm at the gearlevels you will be at artifact knowledge 25. Meaning it will be way more worth to get the injection of artifact power early than to wait for it.

I think at this point the people against it will basically say "No way, +% will make Suramar give more AK so it's way better! Despite any and all math that says otherwise"

[Deleted]

Artifact Knowledge makes it easier to gear up your other specs so you aren't feeling penalized for picking a main spec and your raid or group might need your offspec and you be completely weak. It's also there also a catchup system for later in the expansion (like all things).

ic ic - still id find it more rewarding to actually do something other than press a button and wait a couple of days.

might still be a nice feature for people who only play on weekends - we'll see.

[Deleted]

And we thought garrisons were a bad feature on WoD, welcome to Artifacts

[Lucetia]

ic ic - still id find it more rewarding to actually do something other than press a button and wait a couple of days.

might still be a nice feature for people who only play on weekends - we'll see.

Well you aren't pressing a button exactly. You gather resources, pop it in queue (2 max) and it takes 5 days at the start (as expansion goes it gets quicker). Afterwards every AK you get from an item is multiplied.

[Deleted]

Well you aren't pressing a button exactly. You gather resources, pop it in queue (2 max) and it takes 5 days at the start (as expansion goes it gets quicker). Afterwards every AK you get from an item is multiplied.

so 5 days for both or 10 days in total? means after 5 days i can get to knowledge level 2 or 1 ?

what du you mean AK from an item is multiplied? or did you mean AP here? :-)

so lets assume they stick with the 5 days thing - does it mean the quickest to hit max lvl 25 AK is 5 months?

the point is, i dont like passive gameplay, and thats just what it is. even if it takes ressources to queue a workorder, it feels like i could just login on monday get some ressources, place a workorder, log out, login on saturday and play all weekend with the benefits. that sounds cool if you are that type of player who only plays on weekends, and i feel that its pretty fine then.

BUT why would you even implement such a thing, if in reality it doesnt speed up anything, because its the same effort for everyone, as it is bound to be finished after a predefined amount of time? you know what i mean? it doenst matter if it is in the game or not, they could just leave it out completely and give a free buff to everybody who logs in on weekends and double that up (or whatever) with each of the following weekends.

just my 2 cents

[Lucetia]

so 5 days for both or 10 days in total? means after 5 days i can get to knowledge level 2 or 1 ?

Each time you research it, it will take 5 days for it to finish (which as time goes on will shorten).

what du you mean AK from an item is multiplied? or did you mean AP here? :-)

For instance if you get an item with 10 AK at Level 0 it will be worth 10 AK. At level 1 which is 25% (I believe) it now becomes worth 12.5 and etc.

so lets assume they stick with the 5 days thing - does it mean the quickest to hit max lvl 25 AK is 5 months?

5 days is for the start of the expansion (They could increase it, but probably won't). As long as it stays at 5 days for 5 months then yes. It could be every month it lowers by 1 day with a cap of 2. It's hard to tell since Beta is sped up. Currently it's 2 I believe. But you will cap your main artifact before that probably.

the point is, i dont like passive gameplay, and thats just what it is. even if it takes ressources to queue a workorder, it feels like i could just login on monday get some ressources, place a workorder, log out, login on saturday and play all weekend with the benefits. that sounds cool if you are that type of player who only plays on weekends, and i feel that its pretty fine then.

While the AK you get would be higher because you waited, longterm and reality it won't be. You can earn essentially infinite AK every day if you wanted. So while you are waiting for AK % to build someone else could be farming like mad and have 5x more than you even though his AK % was lower than yours when he used it.

BUT why would you even implement such a thing, if in reality it doesnt speed up anything, because its the same effort for everyone, as it is bound to be finished after a predefined amount of time? you know what i mean? it doenst matter if it is in the game or not, they could just leave it out completely and give a free buff to everybody who logs in on weekends and double that up (or whatever) with each of the following weekends.

just my 2 cents

Because the way you are thinking it works isn't how it works.

[idunnowatdo]

From the blue post on the front it appears blizzard knows and blizzard dont care?

[Jotaux]

From the blue post on the front it appears blizzard knows and blizzard dont care?

No, they fixed the exploit with the void storage.

[idunnowatdo]

No, they fixed the exploit with the void storage.

thats disappointing. but oh well. so what snapshots your AK now?

[Jotaux]

thats disappointing. but oh well. so what snapshots your AK now?

When you pick up the AP item.

[Deleted]

Except the problem is that a vast majority of it is stuff we have gotten in the past. Each expansion takes away stuff we got and finds a way to revamp it into new rewards (ie Draenor Perks and artifact). There's nothing compelling to it or makes it feel "legendary" to the weapon.



The separation is not everyone will have high Artifact Knowledge, not everyone will be going out of the way to get AP. In raids you will still have different crowds. Those who have been playing "hardcore", "mediocre" and "barely". Yet your damage is impacted way more than gear would have it.

I dunno. The system is made so everyone who wants can keep up easily. To be ahead of the curve you are going to have to constantly be making the effort to stay ahead of the curve. But a person who dedicates alot of effort to their artifact doing better than someone who hardly plays or cares is not shocking or unfair sounding to me. It's no different than someone who has been raiding and getting gear will be doing more damage than someone who arrived 3 months late or someone who just stays on LFR.

i don't think theres anything inherently wrong with it.

[Preston Garvey]

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...8135380?page=3


TL;DR - AK will make people skip traesure/rare/suramar quest until raid unlocks for min max AP GAIN - ruining the levelling experience.


So please, help people on Feedback, address this issue on Blizzard forum until they fix it, -6/-7 days to launch.

i can care less stop being a butt kiss unless they give me a pay check thr problem

[Lucetia]

I dunno. The system is made so everyone who wants can keep up easily. To be ahead of the curve you are going to have to constantly be making the effort to stay ahead of the curve. But a person who dedicates alot of effort to their artifact doing better than someone who hardly plays or cares is not shocking or unfair sounding to me. It's no different than someone who has been raiding and getting gear will be doing more damage than someone who arrived 3 months late or someone who just stays on LFR.

i don't think theres anything inherently wrong with it.

Oh I wasn't complaining any of that. I was just elaborating further on a comment I posted a bit before that. I was just more illustrating why the artifacts weren't fun, rewarding, or compelling imo.