[Guardian] Legion Discussion

[Semor]

Is there a reason rend and tear is not shown as a debuff on target? I remember on beta it did.

[Polarthief]

I know it's earlier to tell but my question here is, Why should we stay at Guardian instead go with another tank spec in Legion?

Because it's not always about numbers, otherwise, I wouldn't have switched to Druid (and Boomy as main) over Mage which has always had a top 3 spot since the class's existence.

Regardless though, something needs to be fixed with our threat. Maybe Thrash and Moonfire could be given bigger threat modifiers and SOMETHING needs to be done with Maul. It's already off my bars until they do something to it. I mean ffs, there's even a 3-point artifact trait tied to it.

[Milocow]

o wow we nerf mastery to make haste better

does blizz even know how horrible crit is for guardian druids?

[Inukashi]

I know, i'm not quitting Guardian druid because of this nerf, just asking where this put us on tank ranks now
I love my big butt bear

I tested my Tanks yesterday and I think it's hard to make a real ranking because the Tanksystem felt like this to me:
Blizzard wants the player to decide what his tankstyle is and some tanks get more damage, but have more healing and others get less dmg and have less healing.
Tanks with more healing are better tanks with a bad healer or when alone and tanks with less healing are better group tanks.

So when I tank an pre-event boss with my druid and there is no healer, i'm just dying. My Paladin has no Problems tanking a pre-event boss without healer.

My Druid on the other side is a lot better in mythic dungeons where my paladin just dies. The mitigation is still so good I don't need much heal with my druid while the paladins healthbar seems to jump between 100% and 10% and sometimes it drops to 0.

So let's not order them in good and bad, but in 'is good for your healer' and 'can be his own healer'

So by ordering my tankclasses I have from groupfriendly to solo friendly I would say it's this:

Warrior > Druid > DH > DK > Paladin

If you have a good healer you might want to play one tank from the left. If your healer sleeps from time to time you might take a tank from the right.
The Warrior seems the easiest to heal, but since he usually has 0 selfhealing he always will need a healer.

Paladins in my eyes drop like shit, but when they get good gear they may be the first tanks to say "i don't need any heal to tank this dungeon"

[Ooshraxa]

Is it an oversight or a deliberate choice that Brewmaster is not on the list?
Not being snide, serious question.

[Cannibalus]

743 ilvl Guardian here, did a few Archimonde HC boost run yesterday, had 55-60k dps by the end of the fight and even overaggroed some of my (also good geared) co-tanks.

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...balus/advanced

As you can see i changed mastery with haste on enchants/gems and swapped what gear i could. I feel like a ninja druid hitting stuff like mad (Mangle and Thrash have 4.5 sec CD).

[Adramelch]

Is it an oversight or a deliberate choice that Brewmaster is not on the list?
Not being snide, serious question.

"So by ordering my tankclasses I have"

There's your answer I suppose.

[Inukashi]

Is it an oversight or a deliberate choice that Brewmaster is not on the list?
Not being snide, serious question.

"So by ordering my tankclasses I have"

There's your answer I suppose.

thank you

based on the information I have I would put brewmaster between Druid and DH

I personally like Druid the most because his mitigation makes him nearly as smooth to heal as a warrior, but we still have that one heal, if something happens. Warrior on the other side, if you didnt skill that 10% hp heal with 20 sec cd you have nothing. You can tank big mobs by mitigating most of the damage, but every hp lost is gone without a healer. Druid isnt that close behind with mitigation.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

743 ilvl Guardian here, did a few Archimonde HC boost run yesterday, had 55-60k dps by the end of the fight and even overaggroed some of my (also good geared) co-tanks.

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...balus/advanced

As you can see i changed mastery with haste on enchants/gems and swapped what gear i could. I feel like a ninja druid hitting stuff like mad (Mangle and Thrash have 4.5 sec CD).

According to Arielle's new math Vers and Mastery are still our go to survival stats.
Haste wins hard on dps though. And is slightly behind vers and mastery.

So Survival : Vers = Mastery > Haste > Crit
DPS: Haste >> everything else.

[Ausr]

I think it's just annoying to do this like the week right before launch and not, you know, a couple months ago or some shit.

[Kujako]

But that extra armor from iron fur is totally gonna protect us from all that magic damage, right guys?

[Inukashi]

But that extra armor from iron fur is totally gonna protect us from all that magic damage, right guys?

our Mastery will,
mark of ursol will (magic version of iron fur),
barkskin will,
frenzy reg will,
skull bash might,
survival instincts will,
adaptiv fur will

I think magic damage shouldnt be that big of a problem.

[Bearygood]

I tested my Tanks yesterday and I think it's hard to make a real ranking because the Tanksystem felt like this to me:
Blizzard wants the player to decide what his tankstyle is and some tanks get more damage, but have more healing and others get less dmg and have less healing.
Tanks with more healing are better tanks with a bad healer or when alone and tanks with less healing are better group tanks.

So when I tank an pre-event boss with my druid and there is no healer, i'm just dying. My Paladin has no Problems tanking a pre-event boss without healer.

My Druid on the other side is a lot better in mythic dungeons where my paladin just dies. The mitigation is still so good I don't need much heal with my druid while the paladins healthbar seems to jump between 100% and 10% and sometimes it drops to 0.

So let's not order them in good and bad, but in 'is good for your healer' and 'can be his own healer'

So by ordering my tankclasses I have from groupfriendly to solo friendly I would say it's this:

Warrior > Druid > DH > DK > Paladin

If you have a good healer you might want to play one tank from the left. If your healer sleeps from time to time you might take a tank from the right.
The Warrior seems the easiest to heal, but since he usually has 0 selfhealing he always will need a healer.

Paladins in my eyes drop like shit, but when they get good gear they may be the first tanks to say "i don't need any heal to tank this dungeon"

I actually quit my paladin after the patch changes when my healers complained of his spikeyness

Everyone loves the druid

[CenariusTheForestLord]

our Mastery will,
mark of ursol will (magic version of iron fur),
barkskin will,
frenzy reg will,
skull bash might,
survival instincts will,
adaptiv fur will

I think magic damage shouldnt be that big of a problem.

Yes, cooldowns will be super helpful on Star Augar, a boss that never autoattacks, only does magic damage, sustained, over a 6 minute fight.
This is so good compared to spell reflect and Ignore Pain, Shield of Righteousness and a 50% of missing health heal, Bone Shield Death Strike Consumption.
We're now right up there with Demon Hunters and Brewmasters.
Demon Hunters have the ward which gives 30% DR and passive tattoo reduction.
We have Ursol.
BRM's have nothing (not too sure on magic damage vs stagger)?

We went from best Magic Tank in the game to Demon Hunter in 1 hotfix.

EDIT: I'm sorry you're right, suddenly Adaptive fur becomes a cool choice in the artifact path. Good job blizz, you stealth buffed the most hated trait in the guardian artifact.

- - - Updated - - -

I actually quit my paladin after the patch changes when my healers complained of his spikeyness

Everyone loves the druid

Druids have always been the easiest to heal. Doesn't mean they're in a good spot. Especially with healer mana not being infinite anymore.

[Bearygood]

When is the AP supposed bug being fixed?

[CenariusTheForestLord]

When is the AP supposed bug being fixed?

Soon(tm)

I can assure you it'll be fixed before 8.1

[The Inevitable]

On a pure magic damage fight:

1 - ((1 - 0.15 mastery) * (1 - 0.10 Thick Hide) * (1 - 0.10 Adaptive Fur) * (1 - 0.30 Mark of Ursol) * (1 - 0.06 Rend and Tear)) = 54.7% magic damage reduction with 100% uptime. Also, on a pure magic damage fight, you'd probably take Brambles, too, since most of your rage would be useless.

We did lose a bit magic dmg mitigation from the mastery nerf, but, along with our CDs, I think we're still actually in a very good position on fights with lots of magic damage.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

On a pure magic damage fight:

1 - ((1 - 0.15 mastery) * (1 - 0.10 Thick Hide) * (1 - 0.10 Adaptive Fur) * (1 - 0.30 Mark of Ursol) * (1 - 0.06 Rend and Tear)) = 54.7% magic damage reduction with 100% uptime. Also, on a pure magic damage fight, you'd probably take Brambles, too, since most of your rage would be useless.

We did lose a bit magic dmg mitigation from the mastery nerf, but, along with our CDs, I think we're still actually in a very good position on fights with lots of magic damage.

What's the 15% mastery reduction? Also, Adaptive Fur doesn't have a 100% uptime.

I'm at .9*.94 = .846 -> 15.4 % Passive DR.
.9*.94*.7*.9= .533 -> 46.7 % Active DR.

This still puts us below warriors, prot paladins and DK's.

[Nevcairiel]

Yes, cooldowns will be super helpful on Star Augar, a boss that never autoattacks, only does magic damage, sustained, over a 6 minute fight.

Mark of Ursol is not a cooldown though, and since you don't need Ironfur you should be able to keep it up 100%, so thats 30% flat magic reduce, which isn't something to ignore.

With Guardian of Elune and the length trait its a 9.5 second 30% reduce for 45 rage - reduced by gory fur.
Should be easy to keep up.

What's the 15% mastery reduction?

Presumably an average value of 15% mastery, which gives us 15% more life and incoming heal, so it does provide some mitigating factors. Example: If we get hit for 100k with 15% mastery, we only have to be healed for ~87k to make up the difference (since 87k + 15% ~ 100k), so thats ~13% mitigation. Not quite the full mastery percentages in DR, unless my math fails.

[Inukashi]

I actually quit my paladin after the patch changes when my healers complained of his spikeyness

Everyone loves the druid

yeah, thats what I mean.. the tanks on the left are healer friendly while the one on the right can survive longer without healing.

And sure, healers love Druids, they are in my 2nd place of healer friendlyness they can only be topped by warriors imo

[...]

With bonusheal/hp and always active mark of ursol (its possible with artefact) I think we are in a good spot. Paladin e.g. has 30% dmg reduction too with his shield I think. The only tank I can see here beeing really awesome is warrior.. but our talents are fine as magic tanks.