[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Strear]

Thanks for the guide and sheet . Before really engaging in the " weekly and daily " TODO LIST, it's never mentioned, but still a very important thing for some of us : do some who did the todolist have an average idea of the time required to fullfill it, on a daily perspective for one character ? The " required " time could tell if one can expect to " maintain " one main and one alt, just one main, or even (I have no idea of the investment required by the new system), one main but without too much hope compared to " very invested & present players ".
Reading " Skipping even 1 day will be a huge setback in the long run. " scared me a little (holidays, away for work, ...).

[Vanderhuge]

Interesting to note that the legendary cloak wasn't included in the most recent tuning pass. Two questions for you, Sol:

1) Will the sims eventually include the idea of AW > JV > AtA > JV to ramp up the 10 quick stacks of Crusade or has this idea been debunked? (Let's assume no legendary cloak)
2) With the legendary cloak, does JV just become completely useless? In the event Divine Purpose gained a bit of luster, a TV + 125% TV almost seems like it would do more damage than JV + TV, especially once artifact talents come into play.

[Solsacra]

1) Debunked. not worth wasting the HP for marginally longer max stack uptime.

2)Yes, the cloak renders JV obsolete as a stand in for TV when using DP.

[Lowangel]

The sims i've run in the last day were primarily used to just sanity check a bunch of talent configurations. It's just single target DPS in these results, using pre raid mythic gear with an 870 weapon with all 34 traits. I've yet to do a more comprehensive set of sims that should include movement, AoE, and downtime. I'll post those here when i'm done. Hopefully they emulate a moderately long boss fight thats a little more involved than straight Patchwerk :P

So, as promised:
Final Verdict Configurations
Execution Sentence Configurations
Consecration Configurations

Solsacra, sorry to make it awkward.

Love you!

Dear god, finally some good data. Been nothing but opinions!

Thanks for the hard work!

[Zoopercat]

Hey, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. We don't encourage people to use the simulator to compare across classes just yet. The default profiles we have are for testing and are purposefully not equipped with the best gear. For example, the relics give ret pallies health and healing, CLEARLY not optimal But we do that so when testing out rotations, the relics don't introduce biases to certain abilities.

The gear also has stats that are balanced, instead of favoring the 'best' ones. The reason for this is if a bug is found, or blizzard tweaks the class, the preferred stats might change. With balanced stats we can more easily identify changes and problems.

If you want to customize the characters, it's super easy to do.

Here's a link to how the talents stack up, so you should also change those: http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...768db8c6a4ebe8

With Legion, we'll have optimal templates that get auto-generated any time there is a single change in the simulator. If we fix a bug (there are no outstanding bugs, but that doesn't mean some are not hiding), if the game changes an item, balances a class, etc. All templates can get auto-updated with the new data. It's a pretty handy feature that we'll be launching just after legion.

[Dauntless86]

Solsacra, sorry to make it awkward.

Love you!

Dear god, finally some good data. Been nothing but opinions!

Thanks for the hard work!

100% this. Appreciate everything you've done and continue to do Sol.

[MarshallX]

Annnd almost every class gets buffed except Ret.

[Njay]

Do we have proper data yet about how we stack up against other dps at 870? Tuesday is getting closer and closer and I really would like to know if Blizzard sticks with this support dps idea, balance around GBoM.

[OrcsRLame]

Annnd almost every class gets buffed except Ret.

Most of those were buffs to sub-optimal specs that already weren't seeing play. Outlaw also got nerfed.

- - - Updated - - -

Do we have proper data yet about how we stack up against other dps at 870? Tuesday is getting closer and closer and I really would like to know if Blizzard sticks with this support dps idea, balance around GBoM.

No. If it exists, I haven't seen it.

[snackfeat]

Annnd almost every class gets buffed except Ret.

Yes, a handful of classes out of 30+ specs buffed very slightly, and some nerfs too = almost every class except ret buffed. Ret is now useless.

Please reroll something else, you are a waste of space.

[MarshallX]

Yes, a handful of classes out of 30+ specs buffed very slightly, and some nerfs too = almost every class except ret buffed. Ret is now useless.

Please reroll something else, you are a waste of space.

Pretty much what I was getting at, glad we agree!

[Deleted]

Pretty much what I was getting at, glad we agree!

Well cannot help feel disappointed as we given up hopes for major changes so expected a couple of things specially in the first tier talents . I mean ES not dispellable or damage buff (as it is it cannot be used in pvp since it can be dispelled and it lacks damage output to everything else aka not a viable talent for pve) and maybe a slight change in consecration (either damage buff or movable with paladin like wod glyphed version to make sure it is viable in aoe situations). As it is atm first tier talents make no sense.
Anyways i would love an overall damage buff to some abilities specially the mastery related ones (i mean the mere fact that versatility a stat that is scaled between damage and defensive purposes cannot weight highter than mastery for a dps specc). An overall damage buff would as well help towards utilizing all kind of blessings apart from might without making the specc totally undesirable in cutting edge progress.

[Deleted]

So did the following Sim for ret from the AMR beta sim site:

https://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simu...7e827f492df744

One thing I noticed is that it only counts 1 use of Might, so could I then effectively triple the DPS percentage that the one use currently accounts for?

Whether it comes out to triple or not, the total DPS will be higher with another two applications of Might, correct? Or does the sim assume three applications, but only shows it as one count in the sim logs?

If I could triple that number, Ret would be nearing 180k dps @840 ilevel. Not sure how good or bad that is.

Stop the damn mastery stacking.

[Deleted]

Stop the damn mastery stacking.

The DPS are not good.
You have too much mastery.

What is with the hotfix before legion go live?������

[Redblade]

The sims i've run in the last day were primarily used to just sanity check a bunch of talent configurations. It's just single target DPS in these results, using pre raid mythic gear with an 870 weapon with all 34 traits. I've yet to do a more comprehensive set of sims that should include movement, AoE, and downtime. I'll post those here when i'm done. Hopefully they emulate a moderately long boss fight thats a little more involved than straight Patchwerk :P

So, as promised:
Final Verdict Configurations
Execution Sentence Configurations
Consecration Configurations

Thanks for the effort, any idea how these sims stack up against other classes?

Judging by logs 220 seems low although there are many factors that could affect those logs.

[Deleted]

"cast templars verdict with judgement up and at 5 holy power"

I dont understand this, Justicars vengeage does more damage than TV, so given thise conditions we should use JV instead.

[Gracin]

"cast templars verdict with judgement up and at 5 holy power"

I dont understand this, Justicars vengeage does more damage than TV, so given thise conditions we should use JV instead.

You need to factor in that your spending an extra two HP that could be used towards another TV, likely within two globals.

[Haram]

"cast templars verdict with judgement up and at 5 holy power"

I dont understand this, Justicars vengeage does more damage than TV, so given thise conditions we should use JV instead.

As Gracin stated, the Damage per HP spent for JV is worse than TV. From what I understand, JV should only be used on DP procs.

Edit: Anything changed with regards to Skada/Recount adjusting blessings damage to attribute to the Paladin?

[Deleted]

Is Crusade still better than DP even if you have http://www.wowhead.com/item=137020/w...-the-nathrezim ? Which i consider our best legendary..whats your opinions?

[Puzzony]

It is especially better with crusade, after you pop it, it's uptime brings in much more consecutive TVs on a fight than DP's RNG. After we get Elisande's trinket http://www.wowhead.com/item=140806/c...tes&bonus=3443 from nighthold somewhere February next year, the gap will be even bigger.