Fire legendaries discussion

[stevenho]

I think you're trolling again, it's the only logical explanation. I said -For me- and you just pull, what, Method kills?

Why not? People like yourself, who killed 13/13 once before 50% nerf, can identify with your posts, people who progress high up there can see my post. Whats the problem?

I quickly checked a couple of fights, none are what you wrote, so what, you're just lying an hoping nobody is going to check ?

You didn't quickly check anything, everything I wrote can be verified in world 1st kills on youtube in seconds.

[Rythme]

At the end of the day if the man chooses not to believe sims thats his choice and not one that will effect the rest of us. His opinion on the matter does not invalidate their results and anyone who will truely benefit from their information will do their own research anyway rather than be led by these threads

[stevenho]

His opinion on the matter does not invalidate their results and anyone who will truely benefit from their information will do their own research anyway rather than be led by these threads

10/10 reading comprehension on your part
Myself I use simcraft extensively, simming my own guild progress or kills with it. I will sim the legendaries in a month or so, when simcraft APLs are closer to reality, and actual fight data can be extracted from logs. Before then, any sims are only good to be discussed in threads like this one.
Why some people get bent out of shape about the possibility of simcraft being wrong is a mystery to me. It happend many times in the past and it will happen again.

[Torian kel]

-Nonsense-

Shush now, stop spamming my thread with your idiocy.

Infracted.

[stevenho]

Here you go with insults/profanities every other post.
I'm immune to this stuff my friend.

[Rythme]

10/10 reading comprehension on your part
Myself I use simcraft extensively, simming my own guild progress or kills with it. I will sim the legendaries in a month or so, when simcraft APLs are closer to reality, and actual fight data can be extracted from logs. Before then, any sims are only good to be discussed in threads like this one.
Why some people get bent out of shape about the possibility of simcraft being wrong is a mystery to me. It happend many times in the past and it will happen again.

Thanks I suppose.

People don't have an issue with the possibility of simc being wrong if you (or anyone else) can show it to be. The issue is that folks who are pretty good at utilising it and do so for the benefit of the community have posted results which you are disputing without providing evidence to support. Its not a personal thing against you but actual math trumps untested theory (even if the theory comes from experience).

[stevenho]

The issue is that folks who are pretty good at utilising it and do so for the benefit of the community have posted results which you are disputing without providing evidence to support. Its not a personal thing against you but actual math trumps untested theory (even if the theory comes from experience).

I am not disputing their results. Their results are fights with zero movement or add waves. Bracers>ring on those fights, the only problem is that there are zero fights like that in legion. That's a fact. Some people are claiming movement doesn't change the DPS - I say cool, let's see the results on Heavy Movement 8 minute fight. But noone is able to provide any math for that, hence we are discussing personal experience.

[Biomega]

Is it even possible to accurately model movement fights for Mages + Bracers? Since you try to sync up movement with movement abilities AND the bracer proc, the variables involved are ludicrously complicated and hard to predict. I'm not sure it can be solved as a general case, because so much of it is contingent on the actual real situation.

Still, from what I've personally experienced during raid testing, Floes, P! procs, FB, PF, and Shimmer are SO many tools you can craft around that even the heaviest movement fights barely make a dent in the usual rotation.

[stomination]

I am not disputing their results. Their results are fights with zero movement or add waves. Bracers>ring on those fights, the only problem is that there are zero fights like that in legion. That's a fact. Some people are claiming movement doesn't change the DPS - I say cool, let's see the results on Heavy Movement 8 minute fight. But noone is able to provide any math for that, hence we are discussing personal experience.

You have been told that Simcraft is an open source and you are able to go and run those sims. We showed our data. Now its your turn to show your data instead of just saying personal experience. Until you do so your not really defending yourself in an adult way.

[stevenho]

Still, from what I've personally experienced during raid testing, Floes, P! procs, FB, PF, and Shimmer are SO many tools you can craft around that even the heaviest movement fights barely make a dent in the usual rotation.

I honestly wish there was reliable math to see how much of a dent it is.
There are some cancerous things about this legendary that are straight up impossible to sim - like the frustration of having to cancel a 4 sec cast at 3.5 secs due to oneshot mechanic, or seeing your raider die trying to complete it anyway

- - - Updated - - -

You have been told that Simcraft is an open source and you are able to go and run those sims. We showed our data. Now its your turn to show your data instead of just saying personal experience. Until you do so your not really defending yourself in an adult way.

Yeah you showed data that I agreed with a few times now (zero movement etc).
You didn't show any data concerning real fights (movement, add waves) - because it doesn't exist outsie of logs. Which I said a few times now as well.

[fearist]

If you can play around a one shot mechanic and end up having to cancel your cast, you must not be very good. So get GUD steven pls. Sims are not the holy bible by any mean but you surely have to be trolling because no one can be this dense.

[stevenho]

get GUD

Appreciate the tip mate

[fearist]

You need all the tips you can get after seeing you still hadn't killed archi in May, maybe I'll teach you a thing or two this expansion. For now stop shit posting on this forum, it's my job and you do a bad job at trying to copy me.

[enchiridion]

I honestly wish there was reliable math to see how much of a dent it is.
There are some cancerous things about this legendary that are straight up impossible to sim - like the frustration of having to cancel a 4 sec cast at 3.5 secs due to oneshot mechanic, or seeing your raider die trying to complete it anyway

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah you showed data that I agreed with a few times now (zero movement etc).
You didn't show any data concerning real fights (movement, add waves) - because it doesn't exist outsie of logs. Which I said a few times now as well.

ok, so your argument is for heavy movement as defined by simc, lets take a look at what it defines heavy movement as-4sec of movement every 10sec starting 10sec in. So first of all if you cant manage that with 3charge IF (with a 20sec recharge) and a 2 charge shimmer (with a 15sec recharge) on top of potential use of instant cast spells brought ahead in prior from procs then i dont know that you have business commenting on how movement affects fire mages, simply because that would indicate lack of understanding. Then looking at math, the proc lasts for 20sec, if you are seeing that kind of movement it is predictable 99% of the time and you can plan to cast as soon as you are able to stand still if you cant manage your mobility properly. As for the argument that all of your IF/Shimmer procs are being used on fireballs, with the bracers or not you would only be able to cast scorch while moving so theres not a loss-going back to heavy movement, that is 6sec of standing still, i think most people can handle 3.5sec of that to cast such an extremely buffed spell. As far as add waves, it was addressed that aoe situations utilize a different legendary.

[stevenho]

ok, so your argument is for heavy movement as defined by simc, lets take a look at what it defines heavy movement as-4sec of movement every 10sec starting 10sec in. So first of all if you cant manage that with 3charge IF (with a 20sec recharge) and a 2 charge shimmer (with a 15sec recharge) on top of potential use of instant cast spells brought ahead in prior from procs then i dont know that you have business commenting on how movement affects fire mages, simply because that would indicate lack of understanding.

OK thanks.
So - where is the sim result?

Then looking at math, the proc lasts for 20sec, if you are seeing that kind of movement it is predictable 99% of the time and you can plan to cast as soon as you are able to stand still if you cant manage your mobility properly. As for the argument that all of your IF/Shimmer procs are being used on fireballs, with the bracers or not you would only be able to cast scorch while moving so theres not a loss-going back to heavy movement, that is 6sec of standing still, i think most people can handle 3.5sec of that to cast such an extremely buffed spell.

Again - where is the sim result?

As far as add waves, it was addressed that aoe situations utilize a different legendary.

Use a different legendary based on...what?
Where is the sim result for add wave fights with movement?

[enchiridion]

OK thanks.
So - where is the sim result?



Again - where is the sim result?



Use a different legendary based on...what?
Where is the sim result for add wave fights with movement?

lol, "you cant rely on sims" *relies on sims, gets shown how the logic is flawed* "where are your sim results" are you for real right now?

[fearist]

... On alter time, are you dumb? Use the dragons breath legendary, how does movement even effect dragons breath lol. If movement is so important we shouldn't cast fireball at all and use scorch at all times, Kappa. How bad do you have to be, to be so affected by movement? Jesus Christ I haven't heard so much crying since arcane was best spec and people were saying it would be impossible because it's such an immobile spec.
If arcane can work on mythic black hand, I'm sure the good players can make hard casting pyro work, I'm not sure if you will be able to make it work though, maybe you should stick to only using scorch and fire blast and living bomb.

[Biomega]

To actually have to cancel a cast, you would need to:

- be in a spot where you can unpredictably be the target of a dangerous mechanic in the next 4 seconds
- have no charges of Ice Floes
- have no charges of Shimmer
- actually have a proc of the bracer

The actual times where that confluence of events happens seem fairly unlikely to me. I mean, with 2x Shimmer, 3x Floes, and the usual instant casts involved in the rotation anyway you could bridge like what, 30 seconds of non-stop movement if you had to? That just doesn't happen, on any fight. What is more likely is that you have periods of moving, then standing still, then moving again, all in intervals long enough for your movement tools to recharge.

[fearist]

He's a bad player, good players will learn to play around movement, bad players will cancel cast and then probably die. He's beyond saving don't try to bother.

[stevenho]

... On alter time, are you dumb? .

I don't think you get it. I was asking for movement/add wave sims. There are none.

- - - Updated - - -

To actually have to cancel a cast, you would need to:

- be in a spot where you can unpredictably be the target of a dangerous mechanic in the next 4 seconds
- have no charges of Ice Floes
- have no charges of Shimmer
- actually have a proc of the bracer

The actual times where that confluence of events happens seem fairly unlikely to me. I mean, with 2x Shimmer, 3x Floes, and the usual instant casts involved in the rotation anyway you could bridge like what, 30 seconds of non-stop movement if you had to? That just doesn't happen, on any fight.

I didn't say it happens all the time. But yes it does happen. And it is pure cancer when it does.