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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    You can have plenty of things without the government providing it. Adirondack Park is not one of them. It exists BECAUSE private interests were unable to manage it. That's why it was created. If private interests managed these things so well, the movement to make them protected wouldn't exist, because there would be nothing to protect.
    Then we don't have a single park...and the world will continue to exist. It just meant that there wasn't enough demand to justify its existence.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Then we don't have a single park...and the world will continue to exist. It just meant that there wasn't enough demand to justify its existence.
    The world will continue to exist, but upstate New York's water reserves will erode and an economically important portion of the country will evaporate. Sometimes, the inability to generate a profit from something does not mean that it is a bad idea. Grown ups get this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Then we don't have a single park...and the world will continue to exist. It just meant that there wasn't enough demand to justify its existence.
    Remember when the Cuyahoga River lit on fire because companies had the freedom to dump whatever they wanted into it? Freedom!

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    The world will continue to exist, but upstate New York's water reserves will erode and an economically important portion of the country will evaporate. Sometimes, the inability to generate a profit from something does not mean that it is a bad idea. Grown ups get this.

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    Remember when the Cuyahoga River lit on fire because companies had the freedom to dump whatever they wanted into it? Freedom!
    Remember when the government poisoned a river, because they thought they knew better?

    Remember when they poisoned an entire town, because they thought they knew better?

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Remember when the government poisoned a river, because they thought they knew better?

    Remember when they poisoned an entire town, because they thought they knew better?
    It's almost as if the best solution for the problem is based on the specifics of the problem at hand, not an extremist approach that assumes we need to do things one way. It's almost as if some things are better private, and some things are better public...

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    It's almost as if the best solution for the problem is based on the specifics of the problem at hand, not an extremist approach that assumes we need to do things one way. It's almost as if some things are better private, and some things are better public...
    It's almost as if people should be free to do what they want, so long as it does not harm others.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It's almost as if people should be free to do what they want, so long as it does not harm others.
    It would harm millions of people to let New York State's water system collapse.

  7. #247
    Today's massive loss of grey-matter brought to you by, Liberals, because who else is gonna teach you to hate yourself, your country, and love those who are fully intent on killing you, and it's all for "equality"

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    In other words, you can get away with silencing free expression without requiring evidence that the person was actually harassing anyone.
    Free Speech only protects you from the government.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhinopotamus View Post
    Today's massive loss of grey-matter brought to you by, Liberals, because who else is gonna teach you to hate yourself, your country, and love those who are fully intent on killing you, and it's all for "equality"
    Yes, it's all those damned liberals who want the flag code enforced.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    It would harm millions of people to let New York State's water system collapse.
    Then point out who is doing the actual harm. If it causes harm naturally, then there's a motive to stop it, and someone who wants to make money will protect it.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhinopotamus View Post
    Today's massive loss of grey-matter brought to you by, Liberals, because who else is gonna teach you to hate yourself, your country, and love those who are fully intent on killing you, and it's all for "equality"
    this isn't the rush Limbaugh show, take your comments there.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Then point out who is doing the actual harm. If it causes harm naturally, then there's a motive to stop it, and someone who wants to make money will protect it.
    The harm is in allowing it to collapse, so at this point the person doing the harm would be you, for taking away the system that protects it, There is no money to be made protecting it. It's impossible to monetize water resources that broad and diverse. A company would need to manage many millions of acres, without having any ability to pinpoint specific individuals seeing the benefit to charge them anything.

  13. #253
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Time Sage View Post
    Free Speech only protects you from the government.
    Read the sentence again and look for your mistake.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    Read the sentence again and look for your mistake.
    Your constant appeals to evidence indicate an association with the law.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    The harm is in allowing it to collapse, so at this point the person doing the harm would be you, for taking away the system that protects it, There is no money to be made protecting it. It's impossible to monetize water resources that broad and diverse. A company would need to manage many millions of acres, without having any ability to pinpoint specific individuals seeing the benefit to charge them anything.
    Was it caused by humans causing harm to it, or was it collapsing naturally? If humans caused it, then hold them responsible. If it collapses naturally, and it will harm humans, then there is a vested interest in fixing it. Anything can actually be privatized, people simply don't want it to be. It's "easier" to let someone else handle it.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Was it caused by humans causing harm to it, or was it collapsing naturally? If humans caused it, then hold them responsible. If it collapses naturally, and it will harm humans, then there is a vested interest in fixing it. Anything can actually be privatized, people simply don't want it to be. It's "easier" to let someone else handle it.
    How do you hold someone responsible for it? As I said, the water system is too broad and diverse to say "This lake serves X purpose, and therefore Y harmed Z". This may be a tough pill to swallow, but the real world is a bit more complicated than libertarian thought experiments.

    For example, if I dump toxic chemicals into a river, but the effects don't become noticeable for fifteen years, and I'm long gone, then what? There is nobody to hold accountable. There is no way to even give standing in a court of law. Right now, coal plants result in the deaths of thousands of Americans every year, based on the higher rates of lung related illnesses in proximity to them. No individual can say their lung disease was caused by a specific coal plant. That's impossible to prove.

  17. #257
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Your constant appeals to evidence indicate an association with the law.
    Not directly, it only suggests a value for that which is rigorous.

  18. #258
    How is it offensive for citizens for America to fly the American flag?
    Sylvanas Windrunner For Warchief 2016!!
    #NoFlyNoSub, #NoFlyNoLegion, #NoFlyNoBuy, #BringBackFlight

  19. #259
    Why do you need to bring a US flag to a HS football game again? Oh that's right, you don't need to. Nothing lost over making these rednecks leave the flag at home.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    Not directly, it only suggests a value for that which is rigorous.
    Evidence is very useful in court. I don't need to produce evidence to make it ethical for me to ask someone to leave my home.

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