[FIRE] Legion Beta Megathread

[Ijoemomma]

that's why i said put in your stat priority. There are addons that do it, i just couldn't figure out where to search on curse. But i did end up finding one named Pawn
https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/pawn

[Biomega]

that's why i said put in your stat priority. There are addons that do it, i just couldn't figure out where to search on curse. But i did end up finding one named Pawn
https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/pawn

You may have misunderstood. "Stat priority"means assigning relative values (usually based on Int as an 1.0 reference) to the various primary/secondary stats. However, it's not as though these are simply some fixed numbers that are always the same for your spec - they change constantly, depending on your current gear. The reason for this is various interactions between stats that are not on a linear scale.

What this means is that to even GET those "stat values" you would have to simulate your character's specific setup. And then simulate your alternative setup. And then compare. And since that is the only way to get accurate "stat values" and it also happens to tell you which setup does better, an addon would be quite redundant.

Of course, you can just use some generic, imprecise values and accept the error margin. But if you're okay with doing that, you can probably just guesstimate freely and not be too far off either - which, again, makes an addon redundant.

[Ijoemomma]

You may have misunderstood. "Stat priority"means assigning relative values (usually based on Int as an 1.0 reference) to the various primary/secondary stats. However, it's not as though these are simply some fixed numbers that are always the same for your spec - they change constantly, depending on your current gear. The reason for this is various interactions between stats that are not on a linear scale.

What this means is that to even GET those "stat values" you would have to simulate your character's specific setup. And then simulate your alternative setup. And then compare. And since that is the only way to get accurate "stat values" and it also happens to tell you which setup does better, an addon would be quite redundant.

Of course, you can just use some generic, imprecise values and accept the error margin. But if you're okay with doing that, you can probably just guesstimate freely and not be too far off either - which, again, makes an addon redundant.

True enough and i usually do use tools that only have estimated values.. Especially when getting started gearing or playing a character i'm not trying to be the best at. I admittedly use AMR's default values up to a certain point. I'm not a mythic raider so it does well enough.

[whisperingsage]

At the very least, with simming after upgrades, Pawn gives a reasonable idea of what to go for next. However, the impetus to put the right stat scaling is on the individual. Do you put single target? Aoe? An average of the two?

Even the altered time guides give stat priorities. I get that sims should be done, but unless you can sim every piece of gear you might possibly get, you need some sort of guideline.

[nukie]

Hit 110 yesterday afternoon, loving my experience so far, despite the plummeting crit and at times weird scaling issues. It feels like there are enough tools now to make up for the lack of crit and this has been the best fire lvling experience I've had in a few expansions at least.


I have so many instant cast and proc based attacks now that I'm often getting this weird feeling like that's all i should be doing. At times the "rotation" feels like its morphed into instant cast spam and then when i dont have anymore instants, i find myself wondering, wtf am i supposed to do now. To the point where fireball feels out of place and that its slowing down my momentum.

I know one thing, its making fireball casts feel like they are taking foreeever, as opposed to fireball feeling pretty snappy nowadays beforehand. This has been made more apparent by the loss of the haste from the 4 piece bonus.

Not a complaint as much as a weird feeling, anyone else notice the same?

[Biomega]

The general idea is to sim when it actually matters, i.e. once you're worrying about raid gear and actually have multiple pieces to choose from.

Meticulously finding the right marginal upgrade during trivial content is a waste of time, I find. But that's personal opinion I guess. The tools seem to be there, you can get some fair-ish values to plug into various calculators at various places.

[nukie]

Other impressions:

-Artifact and Class Order Hall questing is quite fun. I just about went nuts with excitement when Khadgar said you know who's name in that one quest at 105.

-I continue to be amazed by how many oh shit situations i live trough by employing the strategy "fire everthing (thats instant cast)!!!" Phoenix Flames is fantastic for burst+aoe when your have 3-4 mobs on you.

-Its necessary in order to make the pyro/procs payoff powerful, but fireballs tickle at best. Dont mind too much, burst is fantastic.

-The loss of the damage buff on the leg ring and the complete wipe out of the class trinket where sad moments.

-The more i have used the new flamestrike, the more ive fallen in love with how amazeballs it looks. I loved the class trinket because i got to see flamestrike pillars on single target, never mind the extra dps. I miss this badly and cant wait for the next aoe pack so i can see more flame pillars!

-As many have said the travel time of phoenix flames is weird. During combustion window, I dont know if i should wait for PF to hit and then hot streak a pyro, if i should try to squueze a fireball in there in between, if i should just spam dump the rest of my PFs at the end of the combustion, or what.

[nickseng]

-As many have said the travel time of phoenix flames is weird. During combustion window, I dont know if i should wait for PF to hit and then hot streak a pyro, if i should try to squueze a fireball in there in between, if i should just spam dump the rest of my PFs at the end of the combustion, or what.

You should avoid cast times spell during combustion. Your first priority is to expend you FB charges, then PF.
So assuming you already have Hot Streak, ROP, and Combustion up, your rotation would look like this:

Pyro -> FB -> Pyro -> FB -> Pyro -> FO -> FB -> Pyro -> FB -> Pyro -> PF -> Pyro

and so on.

If you run out of FB and PF charges and you still have time left on Combustion, use scorch to force a crit, not FB.

[whisperingsage]

Pyro -> FB

use scorch to force a crit, not FB

And that's the only reason I dislike the revert from Inferno Blast to Fire Blast. Fireball was already FB.

[Deleted]

Damn, fire dps after fresh 110 is very low. Totally unexpected cuz leveling was totally ownage. Hope it'll improve later with decent gear

[Deleted]

You should avoid cast times spell during combustion. Your first priority is to expend you FB charges, then PF.
So assuming you already have Hot Streak, ROP, and Combustion up, your rotation would look like this:

Pyro -> FB -> Pyro -> FB -> Pyro -> FO -> FB -> Pyro -> FB -> Pyro -> PF -> Pyro

and so on.

If you run out of FB and PF charges and you still have time left on Combustion, use scorch to force a crit, not FB.

While you can do this, most people are going for the Phoenix Reborn trait first therefore, if you sit on PF charges you are wasting potential procs so your opener should be more like this.

Prepot>Precast Pyro(Crit)>PF>ROP/Comb>Pyro/FB>PyroFB>FO>Pyro/FB>Pyro/FB>Pyro>PF>Pyro

Or

Prepot>Precast Pyro(Non-Crit)>PF>ROP/Comb/FB>Pyro/FB>FO/Pyro/FB>Pyro/FB>Pyro>PF>Pyro

This way you get PF immediately on cooldown so you don't munch any procs, normally i have been dropping the next ring and expending what i have left as trinkets are still up. If you are using cinderstorm, its a good time to cast it as you run out of PF since FB will be coming off cooldown and you will have a HU so you can delay without losing dps since it has a higher DPCT than fireball.

[D3athsting]

You should avoid cast times spell during combustion. Your first priority is to expend you FB charges, then PF.
So assuming you already have Hot Streak, ROP, and Combustion up, your rotation would look like this:

Pyro -> FB -> Pyro -> FB -> Pyro -> FO -> FB -> Pyro -> FB -> Pyro -> PF -> Pyro

and so on.

If you run out of FB and PF charges and you still have time left on Combustion, use scorch to force a crit, not FB.

What happens if combustion runs off mid-cast of scorch? Still 100% crit?

[pkm]

I feel like fire was just over hyped on the beta. They don't seem to be all that powerful, just average. DH, outlaw with decent rolls and BM are always superior on AoE. This is especially a problem with mythic+ dungeons because each pull is usually going to consist of around 4-6 mobs and that is literally out of range of fire's effective aoe (multi target cleave or mass aoe 8+). Even then, the aforementioned classes can still compete with fire easily.

Since raids aren't out yet I can't say much on that. But I'm hoping that the utility mage brings will offset the underwhelming aoe on mythic+.

All this doesn't come as a surprise though. Fire usually starts off slow into the expansion and takes off as it goes on.

[Deleted]

I feel like fire was just over hyped on the beta. They don't seem to be all that powerful, just average. DH, outlaw with decent rolls and BM are always superior on AoE. This is especially a problem with mythic+ dungeons because each pull is usually going to consist of around 4-6 mobs and that is literally out of range of fire's effective aoe (multi target cleave or mass aoe 8+). Even then, the aforementioned classes can still compete with fire easily.

Since raids aren't out yet I can't say much on that. But I'm hoping that the utility mage brings will offset the underwhelming aoe on mythic+.

All this doesn't come as a surprise though. Fire usually starts off slow into the expansion and takes off as it goes on.

Yep, many of us totally saw this coming. The spec was hyped manly because people were just jumping onto beta and playing with full gear and maxed out artifacts with no real insight that the spec would not play like it does on a freshly dinged 110 with only 1 main trait activated. That and a lot of pvp players releasing videos on youtube actually ended up doing the spec a disservice IMO as a lot of what you can do with fire is not achievable without full honor talents and many points in the artifact that you would avoid for pve until you had spare.

All that being said i would not be surprised if the amount of phoneix orbs flying around my class hall will drop by half in the coming weeks and alot of people reset their points into frost or arcane. Since to get the most out of the spec atm with low crit and points requires a lot of work and future patience in the knowledge of how well you scale. FOTM rerollers are not traditional fire players who understand this, so i think many of them will switch......and i hope they do.

I do think tho as you get higher and higher on Mythic+ fire will get stronger as mobs will live much longer allowing our superior sustained aoe to kick in with flamepatch, but atm yeah its all burst aoe, which is fun with living bomb but just doesn't keep up with other classes.

So i'm just speccing pure ST damage since trash is getting eaten by those strong burst classes and then i'm usually top on the boss, which is no bad place to be IMO.

[Deleted]

So i'm just speccing pure ST damage since trash is getting eaten by those strong burst classes and then i'm usually top on the boss, which is no bad place to be IMO.

Pretty much where I am at as well. Went for PI first so pretty great for the opener especially, whereas PR will lend itself to aoe situations more, and I am on my way to that next.

As long as you can get over the first initial bit of being below tanks on grouped trash, we'll be fine. We scale so well compared to others and that has always been the case with fire.

[Creatinebrah]

anyone not able to get a champion with "blizzard?" i'm on "following in his footsteps" and my mission time is 12hours which can be brought down to 6hours with a blizzard champion (i have all the others) but i haven't got one yet. i have no more missions left to do for mage campaign cept the one

[Deleted]

Yep, many of us totally saw this coming. The spec was hyped manly because people were just jumping onto beta and playing with full gear and maxed out artifacts with no real insight that the spec would not play like it does on a freshly dinged 110 with only 1 main trait activated. That and a lot of pvp players releasing videos on youtube actually ended up doing the spec a disservice IMO as a lot of what you can do with fire is not achievable without full honor talents and many points in the artifact that you would avoid for pve until you had spare.

All that being said i would not be surprised if the amount of phoneix orbs flying around my class hall will drop by half in the coming weeks and alot of people reset their points into frost or arcane. Since to get the most out of the spec atm with low crit and points requires a lot of work and future patience in the knowledge of how well you scale. FOTM rerollers are not traditional fire players who understand this, so i think many of them will switch......and i hope they do.

I do think tho as you get higher and higher on Mythic+ fire will get stronger as mobs will live much longer allowing our superior sustained aoe to kick in with flamepatch, but atm yeah its all burst aoe, which is fun with living bomb but just doesn't keep up with other classes.

So i'm just speccing pure ST damage since trash is getting eaten by those strong burst classes and then i'm usually top on the boss, which is no bad place to be IMO.

The main problem is that arcane and frost were just weak. It was a process of elimination for me. Frost was practically unfinished, awkward and bulky, and arcane appeared to be deliberately nerfed. Fire isn't any super spec but it appears to be the least shit option.

[Erolian]

Fire is more than okay right now. I can't even believe I'm reading people saying its weak for anything. You're not always going to be 20% ahead of every dps no but if you're actually doing terribly compared to the rest then you aren't playing your class correctly or you're 20 ilvls behind.

[Deleted]

Fire is more than okay right now. I can't even believe I'm reading people saying its weak for anything. You're not always going to be 20% ahead of every dps no but if you're actually doing terribly compared to the rest then you aren't playing your class correctly or you're 20 ilvls behind.

It is ok. It's just that it's obvious that the meme is that fire is op. It was never op, in the beta or recently, it was just the best option among the three specs.

[Volitar]

Single target and very very large aoe feels good. Cleave and like 1-2 pack aoe feels bad.

I guess we just need to get into the raids to feel strong again.