Obese patients face surgery ban

[Darkeon]

If they throw in specialized guidance to those that indeed are willing to lose said weight, I see nothing wrong with this change.

That is, assuming it indeed excludes life-threatening situations and on the specific case in which is out of the person's reach, due to some condition or something the likes.

[Spectral]

It is...I don't remember if it was the BMI or what, but Michael Jordan, the greatest player that graced the NBA, was considered over. Basketball, a professional sport where players run back and forth all of their play time pretty much, and played over a 100 games a season...

Tis silly really...

Jordan's BMI based on his listed height and weight is 22.5, right in the center of the "normal" range.

More to the point, people with BMIs over 30 that are healthy are rare. They exist, but they're far from the norm and they're easily noticeable - no one's making mistakes with regard to low body fat people. The vast, vast majority of people that are obese by BMI are obese by body fat measurement as well. The anti-BMI quibble that people bring up every time it's used is an evasion of reality.

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This would be okay if BMI is representative of health in any direct way.

It is not.

I know people whom BMI classes as obese who are super fit and muscular, and could crush me in any sort of sports competition very easily.

Flipside, I know people who aren't obese according to BMI but live very unhealthy lives.

Whether you think BMI is representative of health or not isn't the point - it's relevant to joint damage.

[Kalis]

If they throw in specialized guidance to those that indeed are willing to lose said weight, I see nothing wrong with this change.

They do that already, Valarius quoted some of the things the NHS is willing to help with in post #47. It is quite extensive assistance.

[Saeran]

"A spokesman for NHS England said: "Reducing obesity and cutting smoking not only benefits patients, but saves the NHS and taxpayers millions of pounds.
"This does not and cannot mean blanket bans on particular patients such as smokers getting operations, which would be inconsistent with the NHS constitution."

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-37265752

Not happening.

[Traveler Voltin]

if the Surgeons time go to better use on people that need Operations for non-self inflicted ailments, then why the hell not.

eating disorders.
there are factors into someone being over weight then just eating a lot of food and sitting on their butt all day.

[Darkeon]

They do that already, Valarius quoted some of the things the NHS is willing to help with in post #47. It is quite extensive assistance.

Great then! More often than not is the lack of guidance and motivation that is the bigger barrier; So I'm glad they are helping out people with that aspect.

[Spectral]

there are factors into someone being over weight then just eating a lot of food and sitting on their butt all day.

There might be factors that cause overeating, but overeating is almost always the proximate cause of obesity. With the exception of extremely rare conditions, it is physically impossible to gain significant amounts of fat without eating too much.

[Kalis]

Great then! More often than not is the lack of guidance and motivation that is the bigger barrier; So I'm glad they are helping out people with that aspect.

If you want to lose weight, or quit smoking, in the UK, then you have lots of help. The NHS is brilliant for that sort of thing, it could even be argued that they are perhaps a bit over the top, as they tend to bombard you with information.

[hrugner]

They do something similar in the US. It isn't legislated or universal, but you're often asked to lose weight before surgeries. Even if it isn't a weight based surgery, getting the person healthy before you cut them open is part of best practices. When my mother had her knees replaced, she had to lose quite a bit of weight before they'd do the work. I also know a lady who has had gastric bypass surgery a couple times now and they aren't letting her do it again.

The gov shouldn't handle this, though it would be a good idea to strengthen protections for doctors facing libel suits for telling fatties they're fat.

[Attackrabbit]

i dont really like obese people, but im against this. they still pay into the NHS, and the NHS treats people who go and drink way too much alcohol, imagine how much nicer A&E would be if the NHS stopped treating idiots who get way too drunk, if anything they should stop treating them.

A&E pretty much has to treat them, it's the whole point of A&E however someone who fucks up their liver or kidneys by drinking too much too often is shit out of luck and generally placed way way way down the treatment ladder.
Similarly (in Wales at least) if you are a smoker and you have an operation that you need you will be put at pretty much the bottom of the list unless you quit smoking.

[Grym]

there are factors into someone being over weight then just eating a lot of food and sitting on their butt all day.

So, someone that takes in less than 1800 calories a day AND will do 10km run everyday, will still be over weight?

[medievalman1]

So, someone that takes in less than 1800 calories a day AND will do 10km run everyday, will still be over weight?

On the contrary, consuming that few calories and running that much every day, for an average, but relatively fit person, would result in a net loss of calories vs their intake. Congratulations, your hyperbolic example has resulted in malnourishment.

[Deleted]

What about people who are obese because of a disease?

Everyone can lose weight, no disease causes obesity.

[medievalman1]

Everyone can lose weight, no disease causes obesity.

Diseases can certainly contribute to obesity. Off the top of my head-hypothyroidism, PCOS, Cushing's, insulin resistance issues...

[medievalman1]

BMI is BS, as is the myth that size is an indicator of fitness. This is fatphobic and lazy, plain and simple.

BMI is a simple mathematical tool. Anyone using it solely to gauge whether someone is fit/overweight/obese is a fool. With that said, on average, take someone who's BMI is 40 versus another who's BMI is 20, the 40 is significantly more likely to actually be obese.

[Traveler Voltin]

So, someone that takes in less than 1800 calories a day AND will do 10km run everyday, will still be over weight?

what part of eating disorders and other factors dont you understand?

i had a girl in my class who would eat a ton of food and barely gain any weight.
there are also people out there that barely eat and still gain a lot of weight.

[Kalis]

Everyone can lose weight, no disease causes obesity.

Watching Jeremy Kyle has been scientifically proven to cause obesity and retardation. Technically Jeremy Kyle is not a disease, but not far off.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

That's one of these dilemmas where there's no simple answers.

Obesity IS a problem and the leading cause of death, right under smoking. Something has to be done.

The solution presented here is polarizing, as it doesn't really help obese people. Rather, it makes them more ashamed and more likely to hide and keep their bad habits. It's a lot like alcoholism on that point. On the other hand, it saves a lot of money that can contribute to prevent obesity in those that are on the way to become overweight. For all we know, this is the text-book utilitarian method.

My issue with it is that it doesn't help people who currently suffer from it. Yes, it's self-harm in a way, much like tobacco and drugs. But as with everything, it's partially linked with mental health. We should delve deeper and try to find a better way to fix it instead.

[medievalman1]

Things/words you don't understand, as evidenced by this post: mathematics, tools, fit, fool, average, likely.

Please, enlighten me.

[Medusa Cascade]

That's one of these dilemmas where there's no simple answers.

Obesity IS a problem and the leading cause of death, right under smoking. Something has to be done.

The solution presented here is polarizing, as it doesn't really help obese people. Rather, it makes them more ashamed and more likely to hide and keep their bad habits. It's a lot like alcoholism on that point. On the other hand, it saves a lot of money that can contribute to prevent obesity in those that are on the way to become overweight. For all we know, this is the text-book utilitarian method.

My issue with it is that it doesn't help people who currently suffer from it. Yes, it's self-harm in a way, much like tobacco and drugs. But as with everything, it's partially linked with mental health. We should delve deeper and try to find a better way to fix it instead.

NHS provides lots of support to people who suffer from obesity