[FIRE] Legion Beta Megathread

[Biomega]

I believe this was answered on AT, simply ignore Cinderstorm during Combustion. Cast as few non-instants as possible (ideally none), and if you do cast something it should be Scorch. After that, continue as normal.

[omri1212000]

I have a question about Rune of Power and Comb.
Can I use Living Bomb & Metoer before I use RoP\Comb to get the 50% dmg + 100% crit? or its snap my stats as soon as I cast and not when the dot falls off\meteor lands.

[Biomega]

The usual behavior is that stats are locked when you finish the cast, but there are some effects that do fall outside of that a bit (e.g. Cinderstorm will hit harder on targets with Ignite, and that is calculated when it hits not when it's cast; it can in fact proc Ignite with early embers and improve the damage of later ones).

[Deleted]

Hi guys! Got a question... did anyone make a weakaura for all fire mage stuff that needs to be taken care of? If so, where can I get it? Thanks a lot!

[irongear]

guys what is the crit cap? right now i have 44% crit, 17% mastery, and 10% haste. should i have more mastery?

[Deleted]

It really hurts having essentially no immediate up-front AoE. You have to set it up every time, so the mobs are almost dead by the time you get off those Flamestrikes. Melees can just slap their dicks against the keyboard and do more DPS. It's absurdly broken but judgment must be reserved until we've seen the results with proper gear and higher mythic levels. It's really off-putting that they'd even allow the game to ship in this state, though. The imbalance is so vast and instantaneously obvious.

[Gaidax]

It really hurts having essentially no immediate up-front AoE. You have to set it up every time, so the mobs are almost dead by the time you get off those Flamestrikes. Melees can just slap their dicks against the keyboard and do more DPS. It's absurdly broken but judgment must be reserved until we've seen the results with proper gear and higher mythic levels. It's really off-putting that they'd even allow the game to ship in this state, though. The imbalance is so vast and instantaneously obvious.

It's pretty much the same issue for all casters. Melee really seem to be having retarded AoE burst as a whole and much of it is also instants or a press of a button, so by contrast casters who not only have to cast, but usually setup - suffer.

For example to reach melee AoE level on my Destruction Warlock I literally have to pick just about every AoE talent I got, which leaves my ST quite lacking and even then I maybe will do like 75% of what WW monk or Havoc DH does with their bloody cds.

That said, I think for raids it will somehow even out, but Mythic+ is the whole other story and I genuinely wonder how that will go, because what goes for Heroic will also go there for lower Mythic+ levels if you want to power level keys (and get double/triple loot while at it).

I must say, however, Fire/Destruction need to consider themselves lucky to even be able to do any sort of close to that AoE - there are some caster specs which are literally fucked in that department like Shadow Priests, which simply have nothing close to decent AoE at all.

[Sarkol]

It really hurts having essentially no immediate up-front AoE. You have to set it up every time, so the mobs are almost dead by the time you get off those Flamestrikes. Melees can just slap their dicks against the keyboard and do more DPS. It's absurdly broken but judgment must be reserved until we've seen the results with proper gear and higher mythic levels. It's really off-putting that they'd even allow the game to ship in this state, though. The imbalance is so vast and instantaneously obvious.

What is this shit?

Fire has some of the best up front burst aoe in the game. Living Bomb, Phoenix Flames plus Fire Blast/Flame on, in addition to regular crits and Pyro Blasts, plus Cinderstorm. Secondly, you don't use Flamestrike on any less than 10 mobs. I can see a pattern of Mages posting negatively and using Flamestrike. Flamestrike is shit. It doesn't proc Heating up, and Pyro has double ignite damage. Let it spread, don't use Flamestrike.

The game is fine, and Fire mages are excellent. Fire has all the tools to succeed in dungeons and raids. In Mythic, trash doesn't instantly die anyway, and you can compete with the best melee. There may be imbalance with other ranged, but not Fire. Just absolute bullshit to be honest. Even with shit gear Fire is good.

[LordAmbrosia]

The game is fine, and Fire mages are excellent. Fire has all the tools to succeed in dungeons and raids. In Mythic, trash doesn't instantly die anyway, and you can compete with the best melee. There may be imbalance with other ranged, but not Fire. Just absolute bullshit to be honest. Even with shit gear Fire is good.

Excellent? Goodness is relative, when there's 4-5 classes better than you it's hard to be "excellent". Melees are just hella overtuned, its the reality of the situation for dungeons. You can't "compete" with the best melee, they already sim higher on sustained AOE with great gear, are hugely advantaged in burst AOE, and do better with low gear.

[Biomega]

What is this shit?

Fire has some of the best up front burst aoe in the game. Living Bomb, Phoenix Flames plus Fire Blast/Flame on, in addition to regular crits and Pyro Blasts, plus Cinderstorm.

You must not have heard of this new class called the "Daemon Huuntar" or something along those lines. I hear they do stuff. Oh, also Windwalker Monks. And whatever class has an ability called "Barrage". Or "Stampede".

Fire AoE is great if you have enough targets that live for a bit - which is absolutely the case in higher difficulty dungeons (and those are really all that matters). Fire is definitely great, probably the best caster DPS.

But don't go around claiming we have "the best up front burst aoe in the game" because that is a blatant lie and nothing else.

[D3athsting]

Excellent? Goodness is relative, when there's 4-5 classes better than you it's hard to be "excellent". Melees are just hella overtuned, its the reality of the situation for dungeons. You can't "compete" with the best melee, they already sim higher on sustained AOE with great gear, are hugely advantaged in burst AOE, and do better with low gear.

That's because melee classes' nemesis aka GCrawler is gone

[nickseng]

It really hurts having essentially no immediate up-front AoE.

But that isn't accurate at all ...

LB -> PF -> DB -> Cinderstorm deals a lot of instant upfront damage, and when your LB explodes, it's crazy.
Maybe we might not match other classes AOE, but we absolutely do have up-front AOE.

[Deleted]

guys what is the crit cap? right now i have 44% crit, 17% mastery, and 10% haste. should i have more mastery?

91% is now the crit cap, so i would not worry about hitting it. For future reference, you can calculate it by just doing 100/1.1(or whatever the CM modifier is being changed to). Similarly just do 44*1.1=48.4% is your effective crit but also bear in mind you have to minus 3% for raid bosses due to them being higher level than you.

It really hurts having essentially no immediate up-front AoE. You have to set it up every time, so the mobs are almost dead by the time you get off those Flamestrikes. Melees can just slap their dicks agrilly off-putting that they'd even allow the game to ship in this state, though. The imbalance is so vast and instantaneously obvious.

Fires upfront aoe is actually excellent, it just requires you to burn a few cooldowns in the process, that being said your complaint only really applies to low level normal/hc dungeons. Mythic dungeon mobs last significantly longer allowing fire to perform extremely well in the aoe department if you know what you are doing.

For the majority of people on here, mythic/raids is the content that only really matters so therefore you will not find much support to your position, if normals/hc's is the only content accessible to you for whatever reason, then you've lucked out i'm afraid. So just ride the wave of op melee killing trash and chill. Spec for max single target damage and destroy on the boss, something fire is amazing at with its front loaded extreme opener burst.

[Biomega]

Fires upfront aoe is actually excellent, it just requires you to burn a few cooldowns in the process

This is technically true, however do note that Combustion is on a 2-minute cooldown, while most of the AoE topdogs (like DHs) have much shorter CDs on their AoE burst.

Fire AoE isn't terrible by any means, but do not delude yourself that it is the best; you will get destroyed by certain melee, that's just how it is.

[Maxie]

I have been running into a few bosses in heroics that I find to be a lot more difficult to hit all six cinders on - is cinderstorm still worth casting over fireball on the bosses where I only get like 4/6 hits reliably?

[omri1212000]

I have a question about Rune of Power and Comb.
Can I use Living Bomb & Metoer before I use RoP\Comb to get the 50% dmg + 100% crit? or its snap my stats as soon as I cast and not when the dot falls off\meteor lands.

any answer?

[stevenho]

But that isn't accurate at all ...

LB -> PF -> DB -> Cinderstorm deals a lot of instant upfront damage, and when your LB explodes, it's crazy.
Maybe we might not match other classes AOE, but we absolutely do have up-front AOE.

He probably has a different definition of "up front". What you describe is 3 GCDs and 2 casts (add RoP) while a monk rolls in, presses a button and fists everything into the ground.

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any answer?

Is it really too hard to spend 60 seconds on a dummy and find out?

[omri1212000]

He probably has a different definition of "up front". What you describe is 3 GCDs and 2 casts (add RoP) while a monk rolls in, presses a button and fists everything into the ground.

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Is it really too hard to spend 60 seconds on a dummy and find out?

that hard to answer than spent time to not answer?

[Deleted]

Fire has some of the best up front burst aoe in the game. Living Bomb, Phoenix Flames plus Fire Blast/Flame on, in addition to regular crits and Pyro Blasts, plus Cinderstorm. Secondly, you don't use Flamestrike on any less than 10 mobs. I can see a pattern of Mages posting negatively and using Flamestrike. Flamestrike is shit. It doesn't proc Heating up, and Pyro has double ignite damage. Let it spread, don't use Flamestrike.

fyi, hot streaks give flamestrike double ignite dmg too, it isnt a pyroblast only thing afaik, also whoever made you believe that flamestrike shouldnt be used on anything less than 10 mobs is lying afaik you use FS on 4+ targets and while i agree with you that mages are excellent, their aoe are only really great when you pop cds, as then you can do equal to or more than any melee but if you dont use cds then your aoe is pretty much behind a lot of melee.

also i think you misunderstood what was meant by up front aoe bcoz living bomb is definately not up front aoe, phoenix flame and cinderstorm is up front aoe, and i do agree with noselacri that we dont have many up ront aoe abilities, well blastwave could so the job as well if need but the loss of flame on is prolly too severe.

[Sarkol]

He probably has a different definition of "up front". What you describe is 3 GCDs and 2 casts (add RoP) while a monk rolls in, presses a button and fists everything into the ground.

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Is it really too hard to spend 60 seconds on a dummy and find out?

Which doesn't matter, because trash does NOT die in one GCD. Again, Monks and DH's do huge damage with their 45 second and 1 min cds, but so do Fire Mages. I'd actually say Fire Mages come out on top if you slap everything on the table. I don't know what the complaining is really about. Even if Mage was worse than DH and Monk, which it is sometimes, that's still just a few classes.

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This is technically true, however do note that Combustion is on a 2-minute cooldown, while most of the AoE topdogs (like DHs) have much shorter CDs on their AoE burst.

Fire AoE isn't terrible by any means, but do not delude yourself that it is the best; you will get destroyed by certain melee, that's just how it is.

You can keep saying it, but it doesn't make it true. Side by side, nothing, DESTROYS a Fire Mage. It just doesn't happen, and if i'm not bursting critters, and doing any no joke content, i'll keep up with any class. It doesn't matter if Combustion is double the cd of the melee skills, because we have plenty in between to do very high damage still.

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fyi, hot streaks give flamestrike double ignite dmg too, it isnt a pyroblast only thing afaik, also whoever made you believe that flamestrike shouldnt be used on anything less than 10 mobs is lying afaik you use FS on 4+ targets and while i agree with you that mages are excellent, their aoe are only really great when you pop cds, as then you can do equal to or more than any melee but if you dont use cds then your aoe is pretty much behind a lot of melee.

also i think you misunderstood what was meant by up front aoe bcoz living bomb is definately not up front aoe, phoenix flame and cinderstorm is up front aoe, and i do agree with noselacri that we dont have many up ront aoe abilities, well blastwave could so the job as well if need but the loss of flame on is prolly too severe.

You're right, it does double ignite damage too, but it doesn't proc Hot Streak. If you tink i'm mistaken, that's fine, but other people like Rino have done lots of work to find it out. Seems to work well for me. Pop Flamestrike on 4 targets and you're losing to someone who uses Pyro. But play how you want. Again what's this dream land where you need 1 GCD to kill something? If there are mobs like that we could use Dragon's breath or something. Nothing relevant dies in one GCD. If an enemy dies before your Living Bomb explodes, or you can hit it with Phoenix Flames plus Fire vlast into a Pyro for ignite, then it's ridiculous to even talk about.