You know what's going to be law? Having to post your real name on public forums.

[Kathandira]

I think this will become a law one day, and sooner than later. I think it's time people have the shit they type in forums be associated with their real names. Free speech is there, it is just that you are accountable now. Thoughts?

Problem is, the only way to ensure this, would be to have some sort of authenticity verification. Otherwise, I can simply just use someone else's name which could cause a boat load of issues.

If it was to be authenticated against your personal information (In the US we could use our Social Security Numbers), but this also makes it incredibly easy for people to track you down for malicious reasons.

Trust me, those who know me, know I am all about personal accountability on the internet. But there really is no secure way to do this, that won't allow people to easily find where you live, and do horrible things to you if they feel like it. I've discussed this at length on these forums on a few occasions, and no one was able to think up a way to make this happen, without endangering innocent people.

[Darsithis]

Then why did you say that right doesn't exist on forums? As I said, it still exists no matter where you are. You just might end up dealing with consequences from the forum, but that has shit all to do with your freedom of speech.

You're twisting meaning and playing with semantics. You know exactly what I mean. Freedom of Speech does not apply to this site.

As for the real name thing, like I said, it would do little. It's not hard to find a way to fake an identity online (hello, catfishing!) to use for trolling people.

[Kathandira]

It's a ridiculous expectation. Too many crazies on the internet.

In short, This.

[Darsithis]

Show me where people have had their first amendment rights violated for something they said on forums or the like. Go head, I'll wait. The right doesn't stop to exist just because your statements are in a forum online.

I'm not sure where we're miscommunicating here. There is no such thing as freedom of speech for a forum. Your first amendment rights do not extend to a forum. They have no place here. They can't be violated because they don't apply in the first place. They cannot be used as a defense and they cannot be interpreted in any fashion as support for or against actions taken as a consequence of what you say here.

[Kapadons]

I'm not sure where we're miscommunicating here. There is no such thing as freedom of speech for a forum. Your first amendment rights do not extend to a forum. They have no place here. They can't be violated because they don't apply in the first place. They cannot be used as a defense and they cannot be interpreted in any fashion as support for or against actions taken as a consequence of what you say here.

He is arguing a weird position. But he is kind of right. I'm free to criticize the government here without persecution happening from said government. Which is the 1st amendment. Not freedom of speech. Freedom of speech doesn't exist anywhere. There can always be consequences for what you say.

[Deleted]

No thanks, I enjoy not mixing my hobbies and professional life.

wise words

[Darsithis]

He is arguing a weird position. But he is kind of right. I'm free to criticize the government here without persecution happening from said government. Which is the 1st amendment. Not freedom of speech. Freedom of speech doesn't exist anywhere. There can always be consequences for what you say.

I suppose I see what you're saying. Even with "real names" it wouldn't matter, though. People will say whatever they want, regardless of the consequences. Sure, there will be some people who will back down, but just look at any blog or news site that uses Facebook comments.

[Ifeanychukwu]

I think that would be a great thing. It would be interesting to see how all the people that are usually talking shit or just generally being assholes online would react the day after their names were tied to everything they do online. I'd bet most would just delete all of their old accounts or just disappear from certain communities entirely.

I was listening to a podcast the other day where they were talking about another topic that's sort of related. Basically if augmented reality became so common that everyone was using it you could have some kind of notification floating above peoples houses or above the persons themselves that displayed ratings from other people sort of like yelp reviews. So for example, if there was a person that acted like an asshole all the time people could tag that person as such so that other people could avoid that person. Obviously that's not very realistic but it'd be interesting to see how it changed peoples behavior.

[primalmatter]

Gonna be a shitty day for John Smith.

[Endus]

I seriously doubt it'll become a law that you have to use your real name, and it's near-impossible to enforce, since official aliases exist and could easily be used. An author using a pen name is an example; it takes basically nothing to establish, and as long as you don't try and pretend that the two names are separate people to hide your taxable income, it's totally fine.

I could see legislation being passed to make it easier for law enforcement to locate personally identifying information to tie such posts back to their author, if they're providing cause enough to get a warrant.

He is arguing a weird position. But he is kind of right. I'm free to criticize the government here without persecution happening from said government. Which is the 1st amendment. Not freedom of speech. Freedom of speech doesn't exist anywhere. There can always be consequences for what you say.

That last bit is a little strange, since those "consequences" generally involve other people speaking in response to your own speech.

And that is freedom of speech.

If Person A says something racist, then Persons B through ZZZZYXLPLOP can all speak out calling A a racist and a terrible person. Person A's employer might catch wind, and fire A, for being racist, which is against company policy. And so forth. And none of this in any way whatsoever restricts A's rights. It is not an attack on their freedom of speech. It's an expression of everyone else's freedom of speech, and A's employer's property rights over their company (as well as A breaking the terms of their contract, by breaching company policy).

That's the entire point. The concept of free speech has only ever meant you can say what you like. It has never meant that you would not face response and criticism and consequence from other private citizens. Not ever.

[Darkeon]

I honestly do not think this is going to be implemented at all. Not to mention how hard it would be to enforce.

- Hugh Mongus.

[Selastan]

Technically it's already illegal to communicate under a false name, like Selastan. Its just unenforceable. Someone more knowledgeable than I could probably pull up the exact quotations.

[Kujako]

I was speaking of consequences related to forum guildlines and rules. Things like account suspensions and bans... Other people talking back at you isn't a negative consequence, it's what you were hoping for.

And FoS most assuredly does NOT mean you can say whatever you like. There have always been restrictions placed on it. See slander.

Slander is a civil mater, Constitution & 1st Amendment applies only at the federal level.

[Forgettable]

It's certainly possible that it will happen, but I hope that day does not come within my lifetime.

[cubby]

I think this will become a law one day, and sooner than later. I think it's time people have the shit they type in forums be associated with their real names. Free speech is there, it is just that you are accountable now. Thoughts?

Read "The Circle". Great book on this exact topic.

[Kathandira]

That's the entire point. The concept of free speech has only ever meant you can say what you like. It has never meant that you would not face response and criticism and consequence from other private citizens. Not ever.

However, even free speech is limited. I can threaten to kill you, and get arrested for a death threat. I can threaten to blow up a building, and be arrested for a terrorist threats. I can verbally harass someone, and be fined or potentially arrested for verbal harassment.

I wouldn't say that the government can't get involved with what you say, because they can in certain circumstances.

[PC2]

No, it most assuredly does not. The consitution is the overriding law of the land in every case. If there's a law on the books for the constitution no state can make any law that infringes upon that law. Hell, I can't yell fire in a crowded theater or BOMB on a plane.

Civil laws are by definition about damage remediation, libel/slander are not free speech issues.

[unbound]

I think this will become a law one day, and sooner than later. I think it's time people have the shit they type in forums be associated with their real names. Free speech is there, it is just that you are accountable now. Thoughts?

So that intolerant people can threaten other people's families because they didn't like what you had to say?

Sorry, but there are pros and cons to anonymity with far more pros than cons. The dirtbags will behave the same way with their real names tied to them regardless (just go to a contentious school board or city council / county supervisor meeting). But people who raise unpopular concerns will be threatened to no end.

Basically, this would just make doxxing, swatting and sealioning an even bigger problem while solving next to nothing.

[Gandrake]

How are you going to stop people from pulling a Dale and claiming to be Rusty Shackleford? Are we going to need photo ID to register an account on a forum? Do you think message boards might start charging a registration fee, murdering their message board traffic since it's free to just bitch on facebook where they are probably already using their real name? Who is going to police this policy? Who are you going to hire to do it? How much are you going to pay them? Do we really need to create a job that costs people so much, but makes poor profits?

Now that you've asked yourself these questions, is it really worth the hassle?

Pointless tbh

[Kapadons]

I seriously doubt it'll become a law that you have to use your real name, and it's near-impossible to enforce, since official aliases exist and could easily be used. An author using a pen name is an example; it takes basically nothing to establish, and as long as you don't try and pretend that the two names are separate people to hide your taxable income, it's totally fine.

I could see legislation being passed to make it easier for law enforcement to locate personally identifying information to tie such posts back to their author, if they're providing cause enough to get a warrant.


That last bit is a little strange, since those "consequences" generally involve other people speaking in response to your own speech.

And that is freedom of speech.

If Person A says something racist, then Persons B through ZZZZYXLPLOP can all speak out calling A a racist and a terrible person. Person A's employer might catch wind, and fire A, for being racist, which is against company policy. And so forth. And none of this in any way whatsoever restricts A's rights. It is not an attack on their freedom of speech. It's an expression of everyone else's freedom of speech, and A's employer's property rights over their company (as well as A breaking the terms of their contract, by breaching company policy).

That's the entire point. The concept of free speech has only ever meant you can say what you like. It has never meant that you would not face response and criticism and consequence from other private citizens. Not ever.

The issues with Freedom of Speech is (in the US at least) there are dozens of restrictions. Slander and Libel, obscenities, threats, harassment, hate speech, copyright etc. For something to be free, you can't have large restrictions on it. And that's just what the "government" restricts.