What's going to happen to Ukraine?

[Crispin]

Link me one reliable source where Putin has demanded parts of Ukraine, or you are a filthy liar.

btw Trump is still far behind, http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...nton-5491.html

[Deleted]

Ideally Ukraine would negotiate with both sides and end somewhere in the middle

So you shall give in to bullying? What shall you do next time Russia want to "correct" the border? Would you accept that USSR kept Bornholm after WW2 and demand that Denmark could not join NATO or the EU?

[Ulmita]

So you shall give in to bullying? What shall you do next time Russia want to "correct" the border? Would you accept that USSR kept Bornholm after WW2 and demand that Denmark could not join NATO or the EU?

Its no bullying when you vote to leave =)

Also, it would be an interesting thing to see a similar vote to be held across Ukraine.

[caervek]

Give Donbass to Russia and let the rest of Ukraine join NATO. Problem solved.

What if Putin refuses to accept it? I mean Russia doesn't recognise the breakaway republics, and they have asked Russia for assistance only to be stonewalled, all indications are that Putin has no interest in taking eastern Ukraine.

[Shalcker]

Good luck with winning a guerrila war. That's really worked out well for large nations recently.

Yeah, we won them all.

When we were the ones funding guerilla.

[Deleted]

The situation in Ukraine is fairly dire at the moment in all aspects of life, IMF loans will require very severe austerity measures and the population will either have to consider housing or food (Yeah, it's that bad).

They don't really have any future with the EU, the EU for the most part turned a cold shoulder to Ukraine.
If the well being of their population and future is in their best interest, they would need to swallow their pride and tone down their anti Donbass/Russian sentiments and work towards a normalization with Russia and quickly mend the trade agreements.

Do you think that's really a possibility? I mean they're after building up a fairly sectarian society in there, how are the people going to accept such a massive 180 turn?

[caervek]

sadly their dream of the EU isnt going to happen this time, and they should probably explore the possibility of reestablishing good relations with Russia

Ukraine's last president tried that, it did not end well for him ^^

[Deleted]

What's that Djalil? You've run out of arguments (as per usual) so you have to resort to personal attacks and hand waving again?

With you? ahahah no with you is personal attacks first and THEN maybe arguments.

[Shalcker]

So Russia take Crimean in Mars 2014 and you think what Ukraine do or not do in april 2014 is essential...

Yep, they could stop Donbass rebellion back then if they would give some concessions there.

Instead they tried to use force... force against those supported by country with a lot bigger force. How stupid is that? :/

[Deleted]

Ukraine's last president tried that, it did not end well for him ^^

Well... theyre really running out of options though arent they.

[Crispin]

So you shall give in to bullying? What shall you do next time Russia want to "correct" the border? Would you accept that USSR kept Bornholm after WW2 and demand that Denmark could not join NATO or the EU?

Talk about a far fetched conclusion.

In reality Ukraine is in a difficult situation and the best option for the Ukranians is pretty hard to spot, I know what the best option for the west and Russia is, but I prefere to deal with the topic in a sense where the Ukranians are the priority, and not how the rest of the world wants to use them to make a point.

[Keeponrage]

Well... theyre really running out of options though arent they.

they had no options before Maidan as well. It didn't prevent them from going against Russia.

[Crispin]

Ukraine's last president tried that, it did not end well for him ^^

No wonder when the guy was acting like an absolute moron, first he's with Russia, then he wants EU membership, then back to Russia ooor wait EU, no Russia, I'd honestly be pissed aswell if our PM were as confused as he was.

[zmp]

Link me one reliable source where Putin has demanded parts of Ukraine, or you are a filthy liar.

HA! Good luck with that. It's probably the hardest question to ask any of the try hards on MMO-C gen ot to answer which source is even considered "reliable".

[Flarelaine]

What are you on about? Putin hasn't demanded any parts of Ukraine.

Crimea says hi.

[caervek]

No wonder when the guy was acting like an absolute moron, first he's with Russia, then he wants EU membership, then back to Russia ooor wait EU, no Russia, I'd honestly be pissed aswell if our PM were as confused as he was.

If fairness it went pretty much like this:

President: How's everyone liking our trade deals with Russia and it's allies?
People: They're okay but some ex-USSR countries have joined the EU, could you look into that?
President: Sure, no problem in investigating better options.
People: Yaaaaaay!
President: Okay I have spoken to the EU and they are willing to meet about it.
People: Yaaaaaay!
President: Okay bad news, met with the EU and they want a kidney from everyone, massive austerity, crippling debt, etc. So it seems we're much better off with the Russian deal.
People: Booooo! We want to be able to call ourselves EU members!
President: It's not worth ruining the country and our children's future just for a nametag guys.
People: Cooooup!
President: What the!?!
New president: Okay we go for EU deal!
People: Yaaaaay!

It's not entirely accurate because it implies all the people were for the EU deal and severing ties with Russia, if that were true then Ukraine wouldn't have had Crimea break away or civil war in the east. However it's a pretty accurate timeline of what happened in the west with Yanukovych if a bit tongue in cheek.

[Keeponrage]

Crimea says hi.

"Putin never demanded Crimea" says hi too.

[Macaquerie]

Ukraine is in a tough spot, I imagine the majority of people would prefer friendlier relations with the West given all the promises of prosperity and security that would bring along with it, but the West doesn't really want anything to do with them. After all, they've been trying to carry out this pivot since the Orange Revolution and if anything they've only gone backwards in that time.

[Crispin]

If fairness it went pretty much like this:

President: How's everyone liking our trade deals with Russia and it's allies?
People: They're okay but some ex-USSR countries have joined the EU, could you look into that?
President: Sure, no problem in investigating better options.
People: Yaaaaaay!
President: Okay I have spoken to the EU and they are willing to meet about it.
People: Yaaaaaay!
President: Okay bad news, met with the EU and they want a kidney from everyone, massive austerity, crippling debt, etc. So it seems we're much better off with the Russian deal.
People: Booooo! We want to be able to call ourselves EU members!
President: It's not worth ruining the country and our children's future just for a nametag guys.
People: Cooooup!
President: What the!?!
New president: Okay we go for EU deal!
People: Yaaaaay!

It's not entirely accurate because it implies all the people were for the EU deal and severing ties with Russia, if that were true then Ukraine wouldn't have had Crimea break away or civil war in the east. However it's a pretty accurate timeline of what happened in the west with Yanukovych if a bit tongue in cheek.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...gas-deal-looms

Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych said he wants to pursue European Union membership for the former Soviet republic that is also being wooed by a Russian-led customs union with the lure of lower natural-gas prices.

[caervek]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...gas-deal-looms

Yep, like I said.