"The toys stepped on what makes Engineers and Demon Hunters special."

[Brightamethyst]

The 15 minute CD on the kite only seems long because it used to be shorter. If it had been 15 minutes from the start we wouldn't even be talking about this.

Let's be honest here. A unlimited use glide on a 2 minute CD is pretty damn nuts. It's kind of baffling that it even went live like that to begin with. Are people really so surprised that it was nerfed hard?

[Wingspan]

The 15 minute CD on the kite only seems long because it used to be shorter. If it had been 15 minutes from the start we wouldn't even be talking about this.

Let's be honest here. A unlimited use glide on a 2 minute CD is pretty damn nuts. It's kind of baffling that it even went live like that to begin with. Are people really so surprised that it was nerfed hard?

The Idol nerf is actually probably the bigger deal here since you can still get the goblin gliders in ample quantities.

[Icaras]

Just buy a ton of goblin gliders. Easy.

This, the interview said gliders aren't going anywhere.

Mind you, sometimes you just have to try and get somewhere the hardway. I tried to use a goblin glider to get to where the blacksmith/mining quests are the other day, ended up in Suramar (at level 106!), and somehow managed to die in such a way that I couldn't quite get close enough to my corpse to rez and had to take rez sickness, heh.

It was actually kinda fun, even tho I didn't end up where I wanted too. (I'm fine with leaving flying for my alts, once I do all the things to unlock it on my main.)

[Lime]

It's kinda funny when you think about it.

What does the Fishing Raft do again? Waterwalking while not mounted which is needed for some fishing nodes? Huh...

- But it's not like it's stepping on the toes of a profession... It's not like Alchemist's make Water Walking potions...
- And it's not like it's stepping on the toes of other classes... It's not like DKs and Shamans have waterwalking abilities...

And yet, Blizzard doesn't seem to have any issue with this item. Hmm...

[Luckx]

There is much more serious issues than toys like faction balance on pvp servers. I.e. alot servers are like 80% / 20% or even 90% / 10%

Bugged Monk spells that ruin Monk and their groups experience in both pvp and dungeons/raids.

But they nerf toys? toys only working in certain zones, Feather working only in WOD locations, Idol only in Broken Isles. They have big cooldowns, they req effort to get.

Toys doesnt help in Mythic/HC Raiding, and those toys doesnt work in rated pvp.

Nerfing Brulfist Idol is wrong.

[shadowmouse]

Not to derail to no flying, that horse is dead and beaten to an invisibly fine paste, but one of my biggest issues with the no flying bit in WoD was lazy story telling. They've decided that invoking game design is an I Win button. To a degree, it is and it should be, but try to work with the story telling in the game too. Example:

Fictional Blizz Dev (FBD): Bungee, you won't be able to fly at the start of Legion.
Bungee: Why?
FBD: Bungee, did you watch the cinematics? Popping up in the air makes you an instant target for all those demons with -- you know -- wings!
Bungee: So why don't you just go all Giant Kaliri on us?
FBD: Because at the start of the expansion it would just be you getting repeatedly shredded and taking equipment damage. Things will change later in the expansion.

Closer to the way they are handling things:

FBD: No flying at start. We want you to experience content! Don't worry, you'll be able to fly later.
Bungee: Um, WTF? I have to grind rep with a faction of ghostly hedge hogs that isn't even in game yet to be able to fly?
FBD: Hey, that's content!

[Deleted]

The 15 minute CD on the kite only seems long because it used to be shorter. If it had been 15 minutes from the start we wouldn't even be talking about this.

Let's be honest here. A unlimited use glide on a 2 minute CD is pretty damn nuts. It's kind of baffling that it even went live like that to begin with. Are people really so surprised that it was nerfed hard?

Exactly what I meant to say. Thank you.

[Lime]

The 15 minute CD on the kite only seems long because it used to be shorter. If it had been 15 minutes from the start we wouldn't even be talking about this.

Let's be honest here. A unlimited use glide on a 2 minute CD is pretty damn nuts. It's kind of baffling that it even went live like that to begin with. Are people really so surprised that it was nerfed hard?

I'm not baffled it was nerfed, but I am baffled how hard it was nerfed. Want Gliders to be more useful (and they already were imo)? Sure, give the kite double the cooldown of a glider (6 mins). Boom, you now have a toy with half the duration of a glider and twice the cooldown. Even 10 mins, which I still think is a bit excessive, would have been better. 15 mins just comes off as they don't want this on people's bars at all.

I didn't use this before the nerf, thanks to Gliders already being better, but now, I laugh every time I scroll past it in the toy box. Not as much as a laugh as the Brulfist Idol, though. RIP that thing. Although, I'm curious if Brulfist resets fall damage.

But I'll agree that it's baffling that such an extremely popular toy made it to live considering how much they disliked it's function.

[Pipboi]

The Kite was probably the most enjoyable part of the expansion for me. Don't get me wrong, I'm really enjoying Legion, but that kite was just so much fun. It was awesome to climb to the tallest mountain and see if I could jump off and glide to where I needed to go. I probably spent more time figuring out how to get to a high enough point than it would have taken to just run to where I needed to be. The gliding added a lot of fun to what's usually just boring travel.

So I've said it before and I'll say it again. So many things in Legion seem to be done for the sole purpose of increasing the longevity of content: Making players take longer to do things.

[Lime]

It's almost like there is a difference between a gigantic questline and picking up four toys.

I feel that's a poor point. Regardless of whether or not a toy is easily obtainable has no bearing on how useful it is. If the kite was locked behind rep requirement, would that suddenly makes everyone's point against it invalid? Not at all.

If that really made a difference, then all they'd have to do is add rep requirements to these items, such as Highmountain Revered, to "balance" them. But then when everyone hit's revered with them, we're suddenly in the same spot we are now.

And I disagree with "gigantic" questline. It's 3-6 easy quests a day for what? A week?

[JustRob]

However cool it would be to have a demon hunter's mobility on all your chars, it would take away from demon hunters if that were the case.

They also nerfed Throbbing Blood Orb from WoD so it no longer has a high jump.

[Lime]

It's still a really long grind just to get water-walking while you equip that artifact.
And so far I haven't heard about anyone getting that artifact because they want the water-walk.
People that want to walk on water use the water walking mounts.

Let's not forget: They did not remove the functionality from the game.
We still have the Glider Kits.
The item still works exactly like before.
The only difference is that it has a longer cooldown and that is fine; if you need that item twice within 15 minutes you are probably 'abusing' the hell out of it and these people should just buy Glider Kits.

That was my point, though. Let me make a comparison of prenerf kite to the raft.

Kite:
- Shorter cooldown than the Glider
- Shorter air time than the Glider

Raft:
- Unlimited duration compared to water walking potions (10 mins)
- Doesn't break on being damaged like water walking potions

The Raft has existed longer and is completely untouched. And considering how many people went for the Azure Water Strider, which gives you the rep for the Raft, I'd say a large chunk has this toy as well.

If Blizzard nerfs the Raft, at least I could get behind them being consistent, which is usually my go to dislike of Blizzard (the inconsistency). Unlike the Kite, which could be argued as a worse Goblin glider, the raft is far superior than water walking potions, and if the Angler Artifact ability breaks on combat, it's even superior to that as well.

People that want to walk on water use the water walking mounts.

Unless you want to fish, which you are unable to do with a mount active.

And just putting this out there, the Raft can reach speeds of 280%, which is superior to all water walking mounts.

[Aeula]

Both of those items were useful to demon hunters and engineers.

The kite for short, frequent flights (Its more powerful than demon hunter gliding too, so it was a nice little glide to have). The idol for use in combination with gnomish gravity well or double jump to help us get higher before activating the kite.

Feels pretty shit without them. Have to get lucky with gnomish Gravity well to get around now.

[Brightamethyst]

PSA: For all your alts and people who haven't assembled the toy yet, the Derelict Skyhorn Kite still works on it's own. It won't let you fly, but with a 1 minute CD it's a great slowfall item and will cover short bursts like the Dalaran fishing island.

[JemiS]

PSA: For all your alts and people who haven't assembled the toy yet, the Derelict Skyhorn Kite still works on it's own. It won't let you fly, but with a 1 minute CD it's a great slowfall item and will cover short bursts like the Dalaran fishing island.

Why does no one just buy gliders?

This is kind-of highlighting exactly why the dev's nerfed the toys, imo.

Give engineering a good, useful, consumable item that lets people do something cool.

No one buys it and instead searches out better, free, alternatives.

[shaunika123]

if it's engineer only it doesnt step on engineering does it?
since its.. engineering only?

[Mad_Murdock]

That was my point, though. Let me make a comparison of prenerf kite to the raft.

Unless you want to fish, which you are unable to do with a mount active.

And just putting this out there, the Raft can reach speeds of 280%, which is superior to all water walking mounts.

But it's only usable in water. You can't sail across land, then sea, then land on the raft. That's the very thing that makes the Mount superior to the raft.

My only beef with the Kite is that it's cooldown was shorter than the Engineer Glider. I think a 5-7 min CD would have been good enough. The nerf to Brulfist was too extreme. It's pretty much a pointless toy at now. at least 10-15 feet in the air would leave it a little handy..

The kite did for a small period kill the market for the glider and now they are back to selling for around 10G a pop.

[Rawkfist]

As a Demon Hunter, I am greatly wounded by the lack of my "get up over that" fist idol. hell I mostly just wanted it to look badass when going from Dalaran to my Order Hall.

[StationaryHawk]

Seems pretty clear to me that what makes engineers special includes the engineering toys that only engineers can use.

[Pipboi]

Why is that sad?
When a large number of players are dropping all the professions to get engineering I'd like them very much to fix that shit.
I already have engineering on two other characters, I don't want to feel nerfed and bad because I want Alchemy and Enchanting on my main.


I have 1200 Goblin Glider Kits on my bank.
Want to stop whining and buy half of that?


It's almost like there is a difference between a gigantic questline and picking up four toys.

No because I've got about 10 stacks of leather/ore cluttering my bags already.