Finally the Alliance fistpump moment we deserved [SPOILERS]

[Deleted]

Helya became what she is thanks to Odyn, she hates him for that, and made a curse so him and most of his subjects are trapped inside Valhala. (Same with most of the warriors raised by the Valkyrs)

I don't remember that, where did it say that? Anyway, being enslaved by Sylvanas is not an attractive opportunity.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I don't remember that, where did it say that? Anyway, being enslaved by Sylvanas is not an attractive opportunity.

Chronicle books.

[Christan]

not sure if it's really a 'fistpump' moment...genn was shot with a plague arrow, you see black ichor around the big freaking hole in his chest, he may of prevented sylvanas from getting immortality, but he may die now, and we get reminded his sons dead, dead leader vs a leader who isn't going to be immortal anymore? yeah not a fistpump moment

[Deleted]

Chronicle books.

Ah, Blizzard's fault for not including it in the game then.

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but he may die now

if you do the Alliance side of the quest, they immediately tell you he's cured of the poison

[Christan]

Ah, Blizzard's fault for not including it in the game then.

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if you do the Alliance side of the quest, they immediately tell you he's cured of the poison

glendrider-darkspear
did i miss that part of the quest? to me it just looks like they both lost, no fistpump for either side.

[MyndZero]

It might be, but as an Alliance player, you've likely gone through that questline and you empathize with Genn. And Sylvanas is a Horde character, that has been doing her fair share of terrible things to the Alliance, including retreating her forces at the Broken Shore to leave the Alliance there to die, so as an Alliance character, you want to see that bitch pay.


Yes, it was. He even says at the beginning "for Varian, for Gilneas, for my son".

You can nit-pick, that it was personal revenge, but you can't take the Alliance out of that context, after what just happened at the Broken Shore and considering that the Gilneans are part of the Alliance as much as all the other races.

For me it definitely felt like an Alliance moment.

I mean if this wasn't an Alliance moment, then neither would have been retaking Gilneas.

Yes you can, Genn did this 100% for HIMSELF, even if he claims it was for the Alliance - it wasn't. Anduin never approved of his actions, and to start with didn't want him festering his anger towards the horde/sylvanas from the moment he found out his father died.

[Maxilian]

not sure if it's really a 'fistpump' moment...genn was shot with a plague arrow, you see black ichor around the big freaking hole in his chest, he may of prevented sylvanas from getting immortality, but he may die now, and we get reminded his sons dead, dead leader vs a leader who isn't going to be immortal anymore? yeah not a fistpump moment

They got to Genn fast enough and got his wound cleaned (so don't worry, he's not going to die by that poison)

[Kallisto]

Ah, Blizzard's fault for not including it in the game then.

Here is the action of your average gamer if they put all book and chronicles lore into the game.

Escape
Escape
Escape
Escape
"Egh stop bothering me with all this story I don't care about"
Escape
Escape
Escape
Escape
Escape

In other words when people QQ about lore not in game what they want is cinematics worth of stuff (since no way people are going to hang around and play things like Garrosh's trial or the Windrunner meetings in Warcrimes) that would make Metal Gear Solid 4 blush.

[Deleted]

Still wont beat that fistpump moment when I clicked the button and nuked Theramore. Glorious!

[zaino]

its fine sylvaanas is just going to murder that filthy dog like the dog he is anyways

only good worgen is a dead one

[Deleted]

Here is the action of your average gamer if they put all book and chronicles lore into the game.

Escape
Escape
Escape
Escape
"Egh stop bothering me with all this story I don't care about"
Escape
Escape
Escape
Escape
Escape

In other words when people QQ about lore not in game what they want is cinematics worth of stuff (since no way people are going to hang around and play things like Garrosh's trial or the Windrunner meetings in Warcrimes) that would make Metal Gear Solid 4 blush.

So let all these players skip it, does that mean the people who do want to learn more of the lore are shit out of luck, because other players might not care? That's a bad way to design the game, and that's a bad way to deal with lore.

[Mehrunes]

Then why does Sylvanas spend her time going after the Valkyrs for her own interests instead of fighting the Legion. She is the one wasting time and resources not fighting the Legion.

She specifically took only token troops to accompany them while the rest is supposed to assist the player in getting the Aegis.

They might be in her people's best interest as well, but let's face it, this is Sylvanas, and it doesn't matter to her. It's been established why she's doing it, and it's not for her people.

Yeah, it's only that her character bio for Legion says she cares about her people and she mentions their future every time you meet her in Legion.

What really confuses me is how you think Genn would've known about Sylvanas being forced to attack Gilneas, how would he know that? By "getting reports"? That's such a blanket statement, how would he have gotten reports? Spies? I certainly never saw any Alliance spies during my time in Silverpine, and if they're there in-lore or whatever, a Horde network of counter-intelligence would also have to be there.

The Worgen player sees Sylvanas' meeting with Garrosh's envoy and overhear that Sylvanas takes order from the Orcs in regards to the invasion and the general there wonders if the Orcs would have to carry out that invasion themselves after all. Besides, even if they didn't know during the invasion itself, that topic would most likely have been touched during post-MoP peace talks.

And also, how would the logical conclusion not be that the Horde betrayed the Alliance at the Broken Shore when the Horde has on several occasions fucked the Alliance over even with a bigger threat present, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me and whatnot.

When was that? Was in in WotLK when Varian declared war? Was it in Cata when Northwatch attacked the Horde before Garrosh invaded Ashenvale, over Night Elves fucking his people over with bullshit annulment of trade treaty no less (though technically, Norwatch attacked shortly before the Cataclysm so the bigger threat wasn't that present yet, then again the Shattering was an ongoing process)?

[Deleted]

She specifically took only token troops to accompany them while the rest is supposed to assist the player in getting the Aegis.

And? They still serve as a shield for her AND the player.

Yeah, it's only that her character bio for Legion says she cares about her people and she mentions their future every time you meet her in Legion.

Wow, that's some selective reading. Here's what's on the page.

The Forsaken's ruthless leader is a formidable champion of her people. [...] As her fate edges closer to the abyss, Sylvanas has to decide how far she'll go to protect her people... and whether they're more precious to her than her soul.

The best line you have is the one about her being a champion of her people. That is a very broad statement and does in no way state that she cares about her people. Then the lines at the end actually question how much she really cares about them, and whether she would be willing to sacrifice herself for them, hinting that they might not be more important to her than her own soul.

Sylvanas doesn't care. How could she? She doesn't feel anything. She feels no love for anyone, not the Forsaken, or anybody else. She can't. That's what it means to be undead. She's not capable of having feelings. How much do you except someone with no feelings, someone incapable of love, to sacrifice for someone else? Sacrifices come from love and compassion.

[Mehrunes]

What does Helya have to do with Valhalla? Helya sends people to Helheim. The Val'kyr are trapped in Valhalla? What?

She made it so that almost no one can leave it?

not sure if it's really a 'fistpump' moment...genn was shot with a plague arrow, you see black ichor around the big freaking hole in his chest, he may of prevented sylvanas from getting immortality, but he may die now, and we get reminded his sons dead, dead leader vs a leader who isn't going to be immortal anymore? yeah not a fistpump moment

Nah, he gets rescued and makes a recovery. Unknown how quick that recovery will be, but he'll live. He was found unconscious though.

And? They still serve as a shield for her AND the player.

How does that even address the point that Forsaken aren't doing anything against the Legion? Did you get lost in your own arguments or something?

Wow, that's some selective reading. Here's what's on the page.

The best line you have is the one about her being a champion of her people. That is a very broad statement and does in no way state that she cares about her people. Then the lines at the end actually question how much she really cares about them, and whether she would be willing to sacrifice herself for them, hinting that they might not be more important to her than her own soul.

You speak of selective reading and deliberately ignore the part about her having to choose if they are more precious to her than her soul which carries implication that they are already precious, just unclear how much? Yeah, this is just laughable.

Sylvanas doesn't care. How could she? She doesn't feel anything. She feels no love for anyone, not the Forsaken, or anybody else. She can't. That's what it means to be undead. She's not capable of having feelings. How much do you except someone with no feelings, someone incapable of love, to sacrifice for someone else? Sacrifices come from love and compassion.

This is headcanon. The Forsaken most certainly can feel, though their affect is dimmed and their emotions are more on the negative side. She admonishes herself for having her love towards her sister rekindled at the end of War Crimes when Vereesa decides to stay in Dalaran after all.

[Deleted]

You speak of selective reading and deliberately ignore the part about her having to choose if they are more precious to her than her soul which carries implication that they are already precious, just unclear how much? Yeah, this is just laughable.

Haha. "They are precious to me, just not has much as I am to myself." This is not something you would hear a hero like Varian say. A king, a leader, a hero puts his own people before him. A hero sacrifices himself. Either you care about your people or you don't. You can't just go and say "yeah I care about you guys, but if shit hits the fan it's everyone for himself".

Again, Sylvanas has no feelings. Literally. It's impossible for her to feel. How do you think she would be able to care about them? If anything, she cares about them as being her tools.

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This is headcanon. The Forsaken most certainly can feel

Uhm, no. I clearly remember in Stormrage Sylvanas saying that they can't feel.

[Sevyvia]

It's a step in the right direction, sure, but one win doesn't make up for years of bias.

[micwini]

I liked it. I think it was a shame that the build up was 3 quests at the start and 3 quests at the end. I would have like more quests in the zone about the worgen vs forsaken.

[Surfd]

What Genn did was purely out of revenge, for his son and for Varian. (Thank got im not at 666 posts anymore lol)

All well and good, except that if that is the case, he doesnt have a leg to stand on.

- Sylvanas didnt kill his son. His son killed himself by jumping infront of an arrow, in the middle of a goddamned war. Sure, it was rather tragic, but you cant blame Sylvanas for something she never intended to do. Hell, She herself even admitted it. His son died trying to be heroic, not because Sylvanas tried to kill him. So he doesnt get to claim right to vengeance for that.

- Sylvanas also didnt kill Varian. If you want to blame anyone for that, blame Voljin for ordering her to make sure that the horde didnt "die" down to the last man fighting an overwhelming army of demons while the King Chin hurled petty insults at Garrosh. Hell, you cant even really blame Voljin. Varian's death lies completely on his own shoulders, since it was his choice to sacrifice himself to kill the Felreaver, when there must have been about a dozen different ways that they could have handled that situation.

[Sunderella]

It's actually in the Blood Oath of the Horde, that every member of the Horde takes. Orc or otherwise.

And as the at the moment Warchief Vol'jin ordered retreat, the Horde retreated since you know, they can still achieve victory by retreating to fight another day. If you want to talk about betrayal, you should ask yourself who dafuq let the Legion into Azeroth 10000 years ago... thats what I would call a betrayal... to the entire Azeroth. If certain Alliance race wouldnt have been idiots in the first place, you might still have your king alive today.

[Phuongvi]

Did the alliance know that the Horde also lost their warchief in this conflict ?