No automated group finder for Mythic is a problem.

[ShiyoKozuki]

Rose-tinted goggle syndrome/stupidity it is and on to my ignore list you go.

Do you ignore everyone who proves you wrong?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I do a random heroic every other day or if I have a WQ for one. Maybe I got lucky, as DPS most of my ques have been in the 10-15 min range. Normal modes showed 45-60 mins, so I just skip them. I did random ques in Cata pre-nerf. I don't think the new Mythics can really match old Cata or even old Wrath at launch. ZG and ZA were normally 1 1/2 hour runs in pugs with the poison boss being what would normally break the group early.

We have some long que times now, but I blame that on it only being week 2 of launch. By Christmas, I expect the ques will be much shorter. Maybe the new 'group finder only' way is better. Make people be more proactive, I predict people will just stick to running with the guilds as much as possible and maybe that's a good thing. But if people don't respond the way Blizzard is hoping and folks start unsubbing because of "Exclusive content for the elites" We'll probably see a change.

A) Heroics and still heroics. Mythics are still mythic. That "exclusive" content was already in WoD. Not only that, but the group finder, isn't even that much more work.

B) I beat every heroic in Cata pre-nerf, and I'd say they are more between current heroic/mythic.

C) Its also possible players have just gotten better, so current heroics aren't as punishing as cata heroics.

D) Its also possible the lesser skills players haven't caught up to you yet. So of course running with only the elite makes things easier.

E) Mythics were supposed to be the "harder, non-queue-able" dungeons. Lets leave them that way. Heroics are about for queue.

[Deleted]

fuck that. Everything should have an option to be queued for.

No one is forcing people to do anything.

They are, within the context of the game. Which is why there is complaints.

[JustSomeone]

I'm sure it was probably mentioned within the 19 pages of this thread--but even if mythic was available for queuing, unless they changed the mechanics of the weekly lockout per dungeon, I'd imagine queues will be incredibly long--especially towards the end of the week. With heroics, you could always go back for a shot at legendaries (or titanforged items if you're already decked out in 840+ gear)--at the very least, you could queue once a day for the 400 artifact power bonus, or the BoA 100 AP (I think given for roles in need?)

Once your tank/healer gets their runs done for the week, I think they'll be hard pressed to queue up again outside of helping friends/guildmates unless there's a real, real nice incentive behind it. (bag of loot w/ chance for legendaries, massive AP bonus...basically anything that might be considered 'unfair')

[Jewsco]

I do a random heroic every other day or if I have a WQ for one. Maybe I got lucky, as DPS most of my ques have been in the 10-15 min range. Normal modes showed 45-60 mins, so I just skip them. I did random ques in Cata pre-nerf. I don't think the new Mythics can really match old Cata or even old Wrath at launch. ZG and ZA were normally 1 1/2 hour runs in pugs with the poison boss being what would normally break the group early.

We have some long que times now, but I blame that on it only being week 2 of launch. By Christmas, I expect the ques will be much shorter. Maybe the new 'group finder only' way is better. Make people be more proactive, I predict people will just stick to running with the guilds as much as possible and maybe that's a good thing. But if people don't respond the way Blizzard is hoping and folks start unsubbing because of "Exclusive content for the elites" We'll probably see a change.



You are correct. We have content labeled "Heroic" and we have content labeled "Mythic". What I am saying and I can dig up the Blue post that says it as well.

Mythics difficulty is pretty much the same as Heroic difficulty was in WoD. And that's what we are really talking about here. I do't care what the name is, it's the difficulty we care about. You can find a healthy chunk of people, probably in this thread, that will even call Mythics "easy". If in terms of difficulty Mythics are just Wod's Heroics why no que system?

So you admit the ques can be long right?
Also you admit they aren't that hard yet you have done them with organized guild groups that are communicating right?
How do you think they will go for lfd group where have the people don't know the fights, can't get out of bad, don't interrupt and have the go-go-go mentality?
How do you think that will work out? Did you miss how it went for cata dungeons?
I still remember and hearty no thanks to going thru that again.
Because the cata and tbc dungeons were easy on an organized group too. It was the lfd that made the cata ones hard.

[Tharkkun]

With that logic though, the LFD tool shouldn't exist at all.

Hard content should not be queueable via LFD. Mythics, however, are not hard content. They put all the actual challenge behind the keystones. It would also ease up the burden on guild tanks/healers for the standard mythics. Right now, I'm being fucking bombarded with whispers asking me to tank shit endlessly.

That's the case for every single good healer and tank right now in the game. There's always a shortage at the start of an expansion. The fact that 5 man heroic queues are less than 10 minutes tells me these tanks exist. But they'd rather do heroics still.

[Mad_Murdock]

A) Heroics and still heroics. Mythics are still mythic. That "exclusive" content was already in WoD. Not only that, but the group finder, isn't even that much more work.

D) Its also possible the lesser skills players haven't caught up to you yet. So of course running with only the elite makes things easier.

Oh we've brought in a few pugs in on some of the runs were someone had to take off. Had a warlock that couldn't out dps the tank on single target. We had folks would bail after the 2nd wipe, normally the ones that bailed weren't nothing to brag about, I got called in to help on the last boss in Eye because the one dps was doing 20k dps and couldn't move out of fire

A) Heroics and still heroics. Mythics are still mythic. That "exclusive" content was already in WoD. Not only that, but the group finder, isn't even that much more work.

I think Mythics when released in WoD were much tougher than Legions Mythics are today. And nothing was tied to WoD's mythics. Now we have mythic only dungeons and quests tied to Mythic mode only. So I don't know that it's a apples to apples comparison.

So you admit the ques can be long right?
Also you admit they aren't that hard yet you have done them with organized guild groups that are communicating right?
How do you think they will go for lfd group where have the people don't know the fights, can't get out of bad, don't interrupt and have the go-go-go mentality?
How do you think that will work out? Did you miss how it went for cata dungeons?
I still remember and hearty no thanks to going thru that again.
Because the cata and tbc dungeons were easy on an organized group too. It was the lfd that made the cata ones hard.

I've run into windows of queing in which they were 45 mins but those have been more rare than common for me.
Yes mostly guild runs with a few pugs, though other guild mates have done mostly pure pug runs
Mythics would go the same as previous heroics did with people who don't interrupt,get out of bad, and have a go go go mentality
I'm all about options, if I have a choice, sure I'll take a guild run. But I don't think the content is so hard that queing shouldn't be an option. I think it's hard to justify saying "no we're not going to allow it" because it's labeled Mythic. Again, I get why Mythic +++ wouldn't work with random fill ins.

I was in guild runs in early cata that went pretty horrible. The difference is, with guilds, people don't start acting like asshats as soon as there is a wipe. LFD could be 10x better if people just bit their tongues or offered constructive suggestions

[ShiyoKozuki]

If Mythics are so easy then why the opposition for making them Automated queuing and then leaving the Keystone Mythic+ for the LFG?

The playerbase has shown time and again that as the expansion goes on it becomes more and more a catch 22 of "needing better than what the content provides to do the content"

I've already seen people in the diungeo finder requiring a cleared achievement. It's not widespread yet but it's already starting.

This will need automating at some point if it's at all going to be serviceable.

They are never going to make mythics automated.

Stop trying to make MMO's anti-social again.

[Deleted]

i dont really see this as a problem, it would be worse with automated group finder. you would get people without knowledge and simple just bad people you dont want with for a smooth run. But you can always start a group on your own, that way u wont have problems finding a group or the "link achie" stuff.

[ShiyoKozuki]

Yes I totally want to chat up people I'll never see again after a dungeon is done.

Maybe you people feel like throwing friend contacts around after such casual jaunts but some of us are not so indiscriminate in who we fill our friends list with.

The last social Interaction I got from someone in LFG was someone saying they had to kick me to bring a Guildy in only for me to reply "Um, what?" and then they dropped group entirely.

I then filled the group with whatever came up first int he party finder and we did the dungeon completely blind with only one wipe on the first boss.

It may as well have been a queued group.

Well, you just admitted you refuse to be social.

Sorry, this game is no longer catering 100% to people who see other players as NPC's, it's now an actual MMO with group/guild/friend based content. Get used to it, this is how the genre was. Your demographic is no longer bringing down the genre to the gutter.

- - - Updated - - -

830 is not a dick, I think its still reasonable

835 is pushing it, 840 is "elitism" (although thats not a bad thing - they can speed run them together in high geared groups)




unless you mean requiring 830 when you yourself are 803 ... meh, healers get leeway xD

.
They're clearable in ilvl 810 with minimal effort, requiring 830 is completely insane.

[melodramocracy]

Its not a problem indeed but out of LFG players put a lot of gates for other players. You may be 840 and godly dps and someone gates you saying "841 or gtfo" or "show achievement" (like wtf can't i not have achievement 12 days into an expansion?) so yeah giving too much power to players can be problematic.

With LFG it would be more like: If you dont like me kick me or you gtfo. Without lfg its like "gate gate gate. Full group all move in. First pull, wipe omg u all suck QQQQQQQ /ragequit".

With LFG this wouldnt happen so much grouping system is quite smart.

You'll never hear me argue that the player driven group tool isn't ruined by players themselves (because it is)... but there's a semi-clear line in the sand here I suspect on Blizzards part, and that is that gearing up outside of actively teaming up with other players is only going to get you so far. That's really always been the case anyhow, as folks who didn't want to join guilds or pugs saw LFR as thier end game for the past several expansions.

I dunno... I'm the most average player on the planet, and managed to find a guild and complete half a dozen mythics so far. Not to sound like an "if I can do it, anyone can" chant, but.... yeah . In fact, I'd argue that mythic and mythic + are more of a boon now to smaller guilds than ever.

[Turaska]

Make the group yourself? not hard, list group, set minimum item level ????? profit.

[Mad_Murdock]

They are never going to make mythics automated.

Stop trying to make MMO's anti-social again.

I'm curious, when you join a Mythic through Group finder. Do you get to know each and every one of the people you are running with? Do you all share battlenet IDs and stop by each other's houses for BBQ on the weekends? I did a chunk of Mythic runs at the end of WoD and it was just like LFD. No one spoke the whole run, outside of the basics "interrupt skull, kill adds"

So I want to know more about the socializing you are apparently doing in your runs and how I can get some of that. I love BBQ

[grandgato]

As far as I can tell, there is no difference between Heroic and Mythic except bigger numbers. There is absolutely no reason they couldn't be thrown into a queue restricted by a higher I-Level. It's just so much more immersive to actually run to a dungeon entrance, let me tell you. Really draws me into the fantasy of playing in a mythical world of wonder and magic!

I also haven't found them to be especially more or less social then any of the other dungeon difficulties, but YMMV.

[Deleted]

I'm curious, when you join a Mythic through Group finder. Do you get to know each and every one of the people you are running with? Do you all share battlenet IDs and stop by each other's houses for BBQ on the weekends? I did a chunk of Mythic runs at the end of WoD and it was just like LFD. No one spoke the whole run, outside of the basics "interrupt skull, kill adds"

So I want to know more about the socializing you are apparently doing in your runs and how I can get some of that. I love BBQ

haha this made me laugh, you have a point. But outside of the general greetings, tactic talk you dont really socialize, unless u run with someone serveral instances, then you start to get to know people better. But if u just join a group, drop it and look for a new one. No you probably wont get friends

[melodramocracy]

I'm curious, when you join a Mythic through Group finder. Do you get to know each and every one of the people you are running with? Do you all share battlenet IDs and stop by each other's houses for BBQ on the weekends? I did a chunk of Mythic runs at the end of WoD and it was just like LFD. No one spoke the whole run, outside of the basics "interrupt skull, kill adds"

So I want to know more about the socializing you are apparently doing in your runs and how I can get some of that. I love BBQ

How do you meet anyone in-game?

Think of auto grouping as selling something on eBay, and group finder can be more like selling something on CL. On CL, you may not make any sort of friend or acquaintance, but the odds are far higher than they are on eBay.

/not the best analogy, but there it is.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I've never been asked to link achievement for a mythic dungeon, and I pug them all every week. Just try some more groups. Wouldn't hurt to watch a video (I like the Fatboss ones) before applying to group, so you won't be fail when you find one.

[Lumineus]

So. are. HEROICS.

LFR counts for raid quests.

Heroics don't count for Mythic quests.

Some dungeons don't even EXIST in Heroic.

I'm not sure what your point here is.

[Otimus]

complaining you cant get a skin that requires you to pve, thats like if i complained that i should get free pvp wins so i can get that artifact skin. you want a cool looking weapon? do the things it requires. i get into mythics either with my guild, or through LFG tool, if i can get in as a lock most anyone can get in. mythics aren't hard, they would be hard if clueless players could just que up for them. the fact that they require you to try and get in is what makes them run smoothly

I wasn't complaining.

[Seradi]

I'm 845 with only one mythic done. I avoid it as much as possible due to mythic playerbase being generally unpleasant. Since generally the players are just as bad as any other pve'er but they devote so much time to farming mythics that they tend to have a toxic self-importance. It reminds me of pvp duellists who think they are gods because they grinded up to 2200 rating with a fotm comp.

One reason Legion has been so good is that the RNG gearing system means it's possible to get some very nice gear without having to do pve content that the vast majority of the playerbase has no interest in. They're learning.

I ran sooooooo many Mythics through LFG with pugs on my healer and I think I can say I had one bad experience. Saying the mythic player base is "unpleasant" is just completely subjective and doesn't line up with reality. The people who run mythic are no more unpleasant than the people who queue for Heroics and LFR.