Do you feel bad for Arthas and how he never found peace

[Enthralled]

These are totally ignorant comments.

Arthas made a decision to pick up Frostmourne, knowing it was a cursed blade, thinking it would save his people and ultimately kill him in the process. He took it up anyway, with the intention of sacrificing himself for his own people. The moment he did it, it's just that instead of killing him, it corrupted him. Arthas after he picked up the blade is not really Arthas anymore.

Do people not get that Arthas never turned to the Scourge, because he thought it would be cool? Do people not get that it was the curse of the blade that did it?

I get that this was a horrible, selfish, evil decision to make, yes. I don't care that he allegedly did it with the correct intentions. That argument never holds water with me.

He is arrogant and makes questionable decisions right from the very beginning of the story. I want to smack his smug face for the condescending way he speaks to Uther.

Arthas after he picked up the blade is not really Arthas anymore.

Oh, remnants of the former Arthas remained inside him for a long time, constant reminding him and bugging him that her still had a chance for redemption. The poor, sick little boy, remember. Real Arthas -- evil Arthas -- killed him though.

[Lodreh]

I don't know what is going on with Arthas in the afterlife now, but whatever it is, it's not pleasant.

From what was shown in the short story for Sylvanas, he's apparently forced to suffer in infinite darkness for all eternity being tortured by shades as a helpless boy. This fate scares Sylvanas enough to do what she does now. Apparently some form of his consciousness is also tied to Frostmourne's remains and when you seemingly destroy it, he lashes out in total fear. Arthas Menethil is also remembered in history by everyone, even Garrosh, as one of the worst monsters in Azeroth's history. No one remembers him for his goodness.


When you remember that he was originally a great man driven to protect his people and didn't even find even the slightest redemption for all his efforts, it's horribly sad. Moreso when Sylvanas is still roaming about.

Here's the thing... is Arthas really suffering or was it simply manipulation to get Sylvanas on her current path? Taking any "vision" at face value when you are in a vulnerable state is risky at best... foolhardy at worst.

[Lane]

I don't believe Arthas was ever 'good' so, no, I don't feel bad for him. Whenever he would say things like, "I would do anything to save my people," I thought it was a convenient and noble sounding excuse to continue to seek more dark power (usually at the expense of the very people he claimed to be trying to save).

As far as I'm concerned, Arthas' crusade was from the beginning always about himself, being a prince just made it easier for him to convince others what he was doing was for the good of his people instead of just to satiate his own desires. This was basically confirmed (for me) with his death, where he displays absolutely no remorse and only concern for himself.

[Aquamonkey]

There's also a nice scene with Uther - I think - where he says Arthas is the one keeping the Scourge from covering the entirety of Azeroth.

Uther was talking out of his ass. Within the same breath, he said there's nothing left of Arthas and then there's a piece of Arthas holding back the Scourge. It was also correctly framed as pure speculation on Uther's part. We know exactly why Arthas held back the Scourge and it wasn't for any noble reason.

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I do feel bad for him. The worst thing he did was kill a couple of mercenaries to save his own people. He did a lot less than say Illidan or Grom, yet they both received, or are gonna receive redemption. Even alternate universe Grom did terrible things even to his own people and he did go completely unpunished. Arthas always had noble intentions, his only fault was to underestimate the curse of Frostmourne.

The idea that Arthas did less evil than Illidan is laughable.

Illidan was originally evil, betraying the NElves out of jealous spite. But he has long been retconned into a noble character who was on the side of good the whole time. In the retconned version, the only really bad thing Illidan did was attack a group of NElves who discovered his 2nd Well of Eternity. And those didn't even die.

[Tzalix]

The comparison to Anakin is very valid. While Arthas had good intentions at first, saving his people at any cost (like Anakin would save Padme at any cost), he ignored the warnings of his mentors Muradin and Uther (Obi-Wan), and knowingly wielded dark powers to save his people in the form of Frostmourne (the dark side).

With this, Arthas became something incredibly evil. At first he was only partially in control, but he eventually took the control entirely by pushing pushing away both the last part of his humanity, and Ner'zhul.

But in his final moments, when he asks "Father, is it over?", that does make me feel like a tiny part of Arthas as he was before all this, when he fought for justice and good, remained. And watched in horror as he saw himself commit all these atrocities.

Again, we come back to Anakin. It appeared as if there was nothing left of Anakin, that it was all Darth Vader. They appeared to be two completely different men, like Arthas and the Lich King. But in the end we find that a small part of Anakin was left. Anakin of course ultimately redeemed himself, while Arthas did not.

I feel a little bad for Arthas. And by that I mean the Arthas that was. Before the Lich King. He had good intentions.

To me, the story of Arthas is still one of my favorite parts of WarCraft. I know that it's cliché and it's a story we've heard many times before, but I still like it.

[McNeil]

The guy has been trough a lot of shit that he shouldn't have experienced at a young age. He saw his own people being turned into zombies right in front of his face, with no way to cure them (and to this day we still can't). And he only had experience fighting orcs and trolls, the undead was an overwhelming foe that came out of nowhere that had put Arthas to test. If you read the Arthas book it tells a backstory about his relationship with Invincible, after the horse died he vowed to learn about the light so that he can heal and protect his people.

I'd say his downfall can also be contributed by Jaina, Uther and to some extend Muradin. Arthas knew what had to be done in Stratholme as he learned how quick people succumb to the plague, and if they hadn't done anything then the entire Stratholme population + Mal'Ganis and his Scourge forces would've overwhelmed Lordaeron. Uther was quite stubborn to believe him and instead just walks away of the problem, if he had just fought by his side then maybe he could've prevented Arthas from going to Northrend. Same goes for Jaina, who didn't want to participate in a hard decision.

Arthas is far from perfect either, he has shown to be hotheaded and to some extend spoiled. The guy was still very much in the learn and yet he was the one who had to make major decisions to save Lordaeron, while no one else was there to help him. If anything, the people of Lordaeron deserved their fate. He still got a proper ending in WotLK, but I think his soul should atleast find peace as he never wanted to be evil, yet had no decision left.

[Strategos]

Uther was talking out of his ass. Within the same breath, he said there's nothing left of Arthas and then there's a piece of Arthas holding back the Scourge. It was also correctly framed as pure speculation on Uther's part. We know exactly why Arthas held back the Scourge and it wasn't for any noble reason.

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Illidan was originally evil, betraying the NElves out of jealous spite. But he has long been retconned into a noble character who was on the side of good the whole time. In the retconned version, the only really bad thing Illidan did was attack a group of NElves who discovered his 2nd Well of Eternity. And those didn't even die.

This is wrong.

In Warcraft 3 Illidan was specifically portrayed as a chaotic neutral character.

[Aquamonkey]

This is wrong.

In Warcraft 3 Illidan was specifically portrayed as a chaotic neutral character.

Knowing that the Well’s destruction would prevent him from ever wielding magic again, Illidan selfishly abandoned the group and set out to warn the high-borne of Furion’s plan. Due to the madness brought on by his addiction and the stinging resentment towards his brother’s affair with Tyrande, Illidan felt no remorse at betraying Furion and siding with Azshara and her ilk. Above all else, Illidan vowed to protect the Well’s power by any means necessary.
--Warcraft 3 manual

[Aeula]

No. He chose his path. Everything he did he did to himself.

[shockzine]

Do i feel bad for him? Yes
Did he deserve it? Yes
Do i want some questline with his ghost involving the Blades of the Fallen Prince? YES

Wish granted. Not only does that occur while you're obtaining the blades of the fallen prince. While you have them equipped you will discover "memories of Arthas" at different places in the BI where he comments on the current events that are occuring and gives you 50 artifact power.

[Deleted]

Illidan was originally evil, betraying the NElves out of jealous spite. But he has long been retconned into a noble character who was on the side of good the whole time. In the retconned version, the only really bad thing Illidan did was attack a group of NElves who discovered his 2nd Well of Eternity. And those didn't even die.

He still did terrible things in TBC.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

In some sense I do because at the beginning he seemed to love his people and wanted to be the noble hero. It was with the death of Invincible and the coming of the Scourge is what broke him down. Being infected by plagued grain and his own fallen soldiers and innocents turning into the Undead. He was very adamant to do whatever it took to protect his people. That is what lead to his downfall.

When the Purge of Stratholme came, he crossed a line that he couldn't go back. Even Jaina couldn't watch him do it and let's be fair without extra knowledge of how the Scourge is, we'd feel disgusted at the idea. You could argue it would be understandable if Arthas at least didn't lose himself in his vengeance and impatience. During the Culling(As per the novel) he doubted himself doing the act. Uther may have objected to the mass slaughter but we can't blame him for that. It was pretty abhorrent what Arthas did.

Mal'ganis afterwards taunted Arthas to come to Northrend and finish it. He didn't need to go there but his vengeance knows no limits. When his troops get recalled and decides that nobody goes home, burns the ships down and enlists the help of mercs(Which isn't a bad thing honestly despite what one poster said) and deciding to lie to his own soldiers and kill the mercs he hired.

Muradin RIGHTFULLY called him out on it but ya know Vengeance and stuff. At the end he picked up Frostmourne losing his soul in the process, "killing" Mal'ganis and his fate was sealed(Arthas).

Anything afterwards was yes his own fault I would say even without a soul. It's also pretty bad that he was just a pawn to the Legion.

[Tuor]

Everything that happened to Arthas is his fault.

Except the part that Ner'Zull ploted to corrupted him even before he was born, knowing exactly how to corrupt him. Ner'Zul corrupted him by forcing him to protect his own people.

He had no change of free choice at all, not even for a single minute, Ner'Zull Knew exactly how to do do it.

[Aquamonkey]

Except the part that Ner'Zull ploted to corrupted him even before he was born,

uhhh..... what?

[Concequence]

After his death his old friends, Muradin, Uther, and Jaina forgive him. Jaina is still in love with him, surprised that he kept her [ locket ] all these years, yet too grief-stricken to keep it when it is presented to her. Muradin gives Arthas a touching eulogy, defining him as his brother, and ruing the day he had ever mentioned the sword to the prince. Uther says that he will choose to forever remember him as the hero who always defended his people, no matter the cost.

If his friends... even after all he did, still felt this way... Why on earth would anyone believe he had "no good" in him. Throughout the entire Wrath expansion I always got the feeling that he was redeemable, he seemed to be "helping" along in the story, watching us, hoping we would succeed. Maybe its my bias, but I feel this way.

Later you meet Matthias Lehner, and its clear Arthas had so much good in him Ner'Zhul had to rip out his heart, and cast it into the pit under Icecrown. And this shade of Arthas was so childlike and seemed almost good natured. The moment that really crushed me in the expansion was at the temple when Tirion Fordring destroys the heart. I felt like somehow we were going to redeem him... but I guess that would not have been much of a story.

[Aquamonkey]

If his friends... even after all he did, still felt this way... Why on earth would anyone believe he had "no good" in him. Throughout the entire Wrath expansion I always got the feeling that he was redeemable, he seemed to be "helping" along in the story, watching us, hoping we would succeed. Maybe its my bias, but I feel this way.

Arthas did want us to succeed. His whole plan was for Azeroth's strongest champions to reach him in ICC to become his new heralds to destroy their former kingdoms. He wanted the PC characters to follow his path.

Later you meet Matthias Lehner, and its clear Arthas had so much good in him Ner'Zhul had to rip out his heart, and cast it into the pit under Icecrown. And this shade of Arthas was so childlike and seemed almost good natured. The moment that really crushed me in the expansion was at the temple when Tirion Fordring destroys the heart. I felt like somehow we were going to redeem him... but I guess that would not have been much of a story.

Arthas ripped out his own heart/destroyed his own humanity.

[Zandalariprelate]

Who cares about that, though? LK Arthas killed the PC (and not just game mechanics). That is the gravest offense imaginable.

...............

[Nerdgasm]

You guys remember when Blizzard kinda retconned the idea of Arthas and Ner'zhul becoming a single new entity by stating, in the novels, that Arthas dominated Ner'zhul's spirit during the construction of Icecrown Citadel?

I remember that.

[Strategos]

Knowing that the Well’s destruction would prevent him from ever wielding magic again, Illidan selfishly abandoned the group and set out to warn the high-borne of Furion’s plan. Due to the madness brought on by his addiction and the stinging resentment towards his brother’s affair with Tyrande, Illidan felt no remorse at betraying Furion and siding with Azshara and her ilk. Above all else, Illidan vowed to protect the Well’s power by any means necessary.
--Warcraft 3 manual

I bolded the most important part of that from the WC3 manual for you.

[Aquamonkey]

I bolded the most important part of that from the WC3 manual for you.

Yep, selfishly protect power he wants and stick it to his brother, feeling no remorse for betraying the entire planet. It's not just about what he did, but why.