Good times at Wal-Mart

[Kaganfindel]

I'm 1/2 serious. Vigilantes can be a slippery slope. Allowing citizens to take justice into their own hands can have bad repercussions. People don't always know the full story and will react with their emotions. This could cause innocent people to lose their lives because someone felt they needed to save someone's life, that didn't actually need saving.

We have law enforcement to do exactly that.

The other half is that I do not want the citizen to go to jail over this. But, I would not be surprised in the slightest if he has criminal charges placed against him. He intervened in a situation which had nothing to do with him. So he can't claim self defense. If things don't go in his favor (meaning he gets charged with murder) it will be terrible. But that is the law.

This doesn't seem to be a matter or justice, vigilante or otherwise; it seems to have been a matter of defense in a life and death situation.

It's not valid to assert that he should've left the situation for the police to handle, because no police were handling the situation. We may never know what the intent of the suspects was, and we can never know what would've happened if nobody had intervened. The attackers initiated a life or death situation by initiating a violent crime while armed. They gambled human life on their own goals. Regrettably, they lost, but they set the stakes, so we can take cold comfort in the fact that the loss was theirs.

[Kapadons]

Good guy with a gun etc...

[TwoNineMarine]

Ah Kath didn't respond to my remarks. Surprising.

Notice it appears the good guy didn't shoot until fired upon. So he didn't just run in buns blazing.

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Remind me to stay the hell away from Kansas. lol.

A better response would be, "I hope that if I ever get attacked I'm in such a place, like Kansas, where someone is willing to defend my life with whatever force is necessary."

[cabyio]

Now a bunch of pro-gun advocates will try to use this story to promote their agenda, a bunch of crazies will call for the death penalty for the person who used excessive force to kill the would be attacker and racists will ask about the skin colour of the attackers.

WTF!?! Excessive Force? REALLY??? The guy had just shot someone and you think shooting him was excessive force.... wow.

[Kathandira]

Ah Kath didn't respond to my remarks. Surprising.

Notice it appears the good guy didn't shoot until fired upon. So he didn't just run in buns blazing.

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A better response would be, "I hope that if I ever get attacked I'm in such a place, like Kansas, where someone is willing to defend my life with whatever force is necessary."

I don't really have much of an issue with that where I live. I don't go to bad neighborhoods, and my cozy little suburb is quite safe. I doubt I will ever experience such a situation.

[derpkitteh]

This!

I never want to go to america it sounds so scary and dangerous there.

lived here for 24 years, in neighborhoods of drunks and refuse.

never had a break in, only had a drunk guy try to force his way in because he was like one more drink from being unconscious.

[Kathandira]

There's never ever a situation where you will try and shoot someone in the leg. Ever. Quit saying it. Just quit it.

On topic: I'm glad the Good Samaritan will recover and move on with his life. He did what he was supposed to. I'd buy him a beer if I ever met him.

Fuck the two baddies though. Hopefully the one that lived will spend every single day of the rest of his life in jail.

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So he should have waited for the cops to show up while those pricks beat and mugged her?

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One person died?

And the other was killed in defense of a woman with a small baby who was being attacked. Fuck the guy that died.

Could have called the cops. In today's world I would be more concerned with getting in trouble for trying to be helpful.

[IIamaKing]

Afternoon robberies are not unheard of. Also if you think it's too crowded for a robbery it's also too crowded for a drug deal.

No, its not. Busy parking lots are great places for 2 folks to exchange goods for money. Looks suspicious AF for em to do it in an open lot.

[Concequence]

This!

I never want to go to america it sounds so scary and dangerous there.

It was not like this when I grew up in the 80's... I remember playing outside away from my home unsupervised for a whole day sometimes, with no cell phone, and I really did not need to be home until dark. I had no fear of anything. The worst things that happened to me were self inflicted by me being a careless kid doing derpy dangerous things, because they were fun.

Now, I'm pretty sure kids don't play outside, because parents are terrified of everything. Thus kids are growing up with an unhealthy fear of everything as well.

I weep for how sketchy America is these days. It has always been a decent place to live, now people live by the words of the gods of fear and hate. I feel like no one listened to Yoda. We have fallen to the dark side.

[zenkai]

No, its not. Busy parking lots are great places for 2 folks to exchange goods for money. Looks suspicious AF for em to do it in an open lot.

I agree about the empty lot but there are a lot of cameras at Walmart, at least the ones in my area, you would have to be an idiot to exchange drugs. Not that drug dealers are the brightest people out there...

[Kathandira]

lived here for 24 years, in neighborhoods of drunks and refuse.

never had a break in, only had a drunk guy try to force his way in because he was like one more drink from being unconscious.

Agreed. As a whole, the U.S. is a pretty safe place to live. There are just certain areas which are not pleasant. Stay away from those, and you have a damn good chance at never experiencing anything like this.

The news only really focuses on the bad. If you look at it like each day the news speaks about on average 2 incidents of situations like this, you can tell how seldom these things really happen. 300 million people (roughly). If each situation like this involves 2 people on average that is 2x 365 days in a year. Which comes out to 730 incidents.

This is only based on what the major news outlets focus on. There is likely more than that per year as per reports of violent acts. But the perception the news gives you makes it sound like every day thousands are getting raped killed or robbed. Which is not the case in reality.

[TwoNineMarine]

Could have called the cops. In today's world I would be more concerned with getting in trouble for trying to be helpful.

What would that have done? By the time the officers would have arrived those two could have beat her, killed her kid, stolen her shit, and been long gone.

Maybe police can teleport to crimes where you live but we still haven't figured that out here.

I don't really have much of an issue with that where I live. I don't go to bad neighborhoods, and my cozy little suburb is quite safe. I doubt I will ever experience such a situation.

No one ever thinks they will ever experience that kind of situation. No one ever wants to. But it happens. And believing it never ever ever will is incredibly naïve.

[Kathandira]

It was not like this when I grew up in the 80's... I remember playing outside away from my home unsupervised for a whole day sometimes, with no cell phone, and I really did not need to be home until dark. I had no fear of anything. The worst things that happened to me were self inflicted by me being a careless kid doing derpy dangerous things, because they were fun.

Now, I'm pretty sure kids don't play outside, because parents are terrified of everything. Thus kids are growing up with an unhealthy fear of everything as well.

I weep for how sketchy America is these days. It has always been a decent place to live, now people live by the words of the gods of fear and hate. I feel like no one listened to Yoda. We have fallen to the dark side.

Perhaps its the difference of awareness as you get older.

"When I was a child, I thought quick sand was going to be a much bigger issue." When you are a kid, you are quite carefree. You aren't focusing on the tragedies of the world as much as you do when you are an adult.

[MasterOfNone]

Well, currently we have evidence of two murders with a gun in this very story.

That is not murder, sorry. Also read some of your other posts. You say if people want to carry guns they should become a Leo. I'm guessing you are also one of those people that bitch about every time an officer discharges his firearm.

[Kathandira]

What would that have done? By the time the officers would have arrived those two could have beat her, killed her kid, stolen her shit, and been long gone.

Maybe police can teleport to crimes where you live but we still haven't figured that out here.



No one ever thinks they will ever experience that kind of situation. No one ever wants to. But it happens. And believing it never ever ever will is incredibly naïve.

Admittedly, we have ALOT of officers patrolling who can get to the location they need to very quickly. You can't drive more than a few blocks without seeing a patrol car. Last time I needed to call the cops they were there within a few minutes. And that wasn't exactly an emergency like in the article here. I was reporting a domestic dispute of two people disturbing the peace by screaming at each other.

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That is not murder, sorry. Also read some of your other posts. You say if people want to carry guns they should become a Leo. I'm guessing you are also one of those people that bitch about every time an officer discharges his firearm.

Everytime? Nah. Only when it is uncalled for, which is rare.

I respect the hell out of our police.

[phitness]

I'm 1/2 serious. Vigilantes can be a slippery slope. Allowing citizens to take justice into their own hands can have bad repercussions. People don't always know the full story and will react with their emotions. This could cause innocent people to lose their lives because someone felt they needed to save someone's life, that didn't actually need saving.

We have law enforcement to do exactly that.

The other half is that I do not want the citizen to go to jail over this. But, I would not be surprised in the slightest if he has criminal charges placed against him. He intervened in a situation which had nothing to do with him. So he can't claim self defense. If things don't go in his favor (meaning he gets charged with murder) it will be terrible. But that is the law.

No that's not the law at all.

Stay in Ziltoidia 9 because here in America we are allowed to defend ourselves and others from bodily harm with deadly force if necessary.

[Fasc]

It simply demonstrate that guns can protect people and shouldn't be banned. Nonetheless, killing an attacker is probably excessive use of force though, shooting in the leg would have been enough, death penalty may be happening here. On a side note, what was the skin colors of the attackers ?



Yeah, really make you think.

I always chuckle about "excessive force" when guns are in play. If you're defending yourself against someone with a firearm, you can only use excessive force if at some point they just plain surrender or you've knocked them out cold and THEN shoot them or beat on them. Otherwise, they have a firearm, they're pointing it at you, that alone is assault and it is reasonable to expect death shortly after. If you have the ability... you aim to completely neutralize them which means unconscious or dead. I don't prevent you from harming yourself, myself, or others if I wound your leg when you wield a firearm.

[TwoNineMarine]

Admittedly, we have ALOT of officers patrolling who can get to the location they need to very quickly. You can't drive more than a few blocks without seeing a patrol car. Last time I needed to call the cops they were there within a few minutes. And that wasn't exactly an emergency like in the article here. I was reporting a domestic dispute of two people disturbing the peace by screaming at each other.

And I'm sure the officers would have hauled ass to get there.

But you aren't taking into account the time that goes from someone seeing what's going on, understanding it's a bad situation, calling 911, clearly stating what's happening and where it's happening at (a lot of people can't talk for shit when nervous or their adrenaline is up), the dispatcher to verify the information, the dispatcher to then actually dispatch the officers, and finally the time it takes the officers to respond to the scene and stop whatever is happening.

Even a very very conservative response time of 3-5 minutes is more than enough time to beat someone to death or just enough to leave them on the ground unconscious, steal their stuff, and run.

Are you honestly saying that that is better than this Good Samaritan to step in? He didn't go into it wanting to kill anyone. He just wanted to stop them from hurting her. They fired on him so he returned the favor.

[Kathandira]

No that's not the law at all.

Stay in Ziltoidia 9 because here in America we are allowed to defend ourselves and others from bodily harm with deadly force if necessary.

I'm not sure if the same applies in NJ unless it is on your own premises, or if you are protecting someone else on their premises. I don't think you can draw and fire a weapon at someone in public in New Jersey unless you are defending yourself.

[ItachiZaku]

I don't really have much of an issue with that where I live. I don't go to bad neighborhoods, and my cozy little suburb is quite safe. I doubt I will ever experience such a situation.

That's where we go to rob people.

I mean, they go. Where they go.