Organ Donor: 'Yes Unless' - Netherlands

[Deleted]

Canpinter makes a good point though, they wouldn't need to get bribed by (rich) people because the wait lists would be near non-existant. That's the ideal situation, anyway.

Just another round with the vicious circles.

They can bribe people to get the "good" ones. The rich person gets the one from the 16 year old that was killed in a car accident while the middle class person gets the organs from the poor bastard that died from cancer.

I am not 100% certain but i think people that died from sicknesses are banned from donating their organs.
That would just give the receiver cancer too if it has metastases and you can't be 100% sure about that.

And that's fine. Being a selfish bastard even in death should be frowned upon.

IMO people opting out of donating should also not receive any organ if they may need one.

Yep, peer pressure people into doing what you want since the right of self-determination only exists on paper.

[s_bushido]

Not even worth the risk. What if my organs compatible in a way none of the others are? Not going to chance it.

And what if the Reptilians finally implement their plan to sterilize us all?!

[Allybeboba]

And that's fine. Being a selfish bastard even in death should be frowned upon.

IMO people opting out of donating should also not receive any organ if they may need one.

Have you opted in on your ID? I know I have.

[INVASMANIXOXOXO]

I will admit to having a little bit of a tin foil hat when it comes to the maniacal doctors licking their lips at the thought of my organs, and pronouncing me dead prematurely. That being said I've still always been a donor, I feel like you're kind of a douche if you're not (I would be very against mandating it though). Also, should non-donors have the right to get organ transplants if they have selfishly potentially denied that to others?

[s_bushido]

Also, should non-donors have the right to get organ transplants if they have selfishly potentially denied that to others?

The diabolical doctors people are shitting on in this thread have an obligation to try and save lives. So if there's an organ available, it wouldn't be ethical for them to withhold it from a person just because that person is a piece of shit. As for a non-donor's position on a waiting list, that's another matter entirely.

[Xarathan]

to opt out all we have to do is log on to a website and click a box and were done. there is 0 social involvement to this

[Deleted]

I am not saying it has to be valid for them, it just has to be valid for me.

What does the Lord Emperor think would be a valid justification?

They should not have to care about your opinion!

[Deleted]

I am not saying it has to be valid for them, it just has to be valid for me.

I mean, I am not sure where you are from. But I am quite happy to not live in an authoritarian state that decides such things for people.

to opt out all we have to do is log on to a website and click a box and were done. there is 0 social involvement to this

Pretty much. Which is why I said that an opt-out system mostly increases the number of donors because a lot of people simply don't inform themselves about the legal situation. Not because opting out would be problematic.

[Deleted]

I just want a parody, where a medium takes the government to court and tries to file for violation of the clients body after death because he didn't opt out and wasn't informed about the change

[Allybeboba]

to opt out all we have to do is log on to a website and click a box and were done. there is 0 social involvement to this

To opt in would be the same thing.
Spain has the same thing. They only have a partipation rate of ~35%. Many US states have more than that by giving people the choice of of opting in out of the kindness of their heart. You just do it when you renew your driver's license/ID.

[Akylios]

I guess the fairy tale in question is that human beings nor their bodies are property? Of anyone, or of the government? That's all I'm standing on here -- if you have to opt in as a donor, your life belongs to you and you are making a organ donation. If you have to opt out from being livestock, you belong to the government and the state is taking an organ confiscation. The former defines a just and moral relationship between the state and the individual and the latter defines an unjust and immoral one.

Would you be OK with a system, where no one can be a recipient of organ donations, unless they're registered organ donors themselves? Perhaps you need to be registered for some time as well, to help avoid people just signing up for one day to get a liver, then signing off again.

Seems like a win-win system. Only those interested will be a part of the system, giving or receiving.

[Matchu]

Without their consent, they can now be deliberately murdered (and the doctor can claim it was an accident, many people die in hospitals or clinics anyway) and then legally harvest for their organs by their doctor.

Is there any proof this ever happens? Deaths are investigated, not just the post-mortem.

Also, it makes no damn sense. "Let's kill this person so we can save a different person". Just save the original person, it's still saving lives.

[Deleted]

Well, by the time i'm done with my organs they will not do anyone any good anymore...
And it isn't like one can legally monetarize them anyway.

So i see no issue with that kind of law.

[Deleted]

It's a Socialist country what do you expect? They want everyone to be on equal footing.

I am from Western Europe (as well?). Yet our government still recognizes people's right to decide if they want to be donors or not - for whatever reason they see fit. I think it would be highly problematic if this wasn't the case.

[Tackhisis]

It is a big problem, as that creates an conflict of interest between the doctor and the patient.

[Deleted]

It's easy.

You need organs, but you are not a donor yourself? You can try to fill that empty liver spot up with a empty coke bottle filled with tampons to clean that filthy mofo blood of yours. And no, you cannot become a donor when you suddenly are in need of precious organs.

Oh btw, smokers cannot get lungs and heavy drinkers no livers. Smoke, and die trying.

I am a donor.

/love

Grumpymuppet

[JohnBrown1917]

Funfact, somebody in the party for the animals was planning on voting 'no', but the train he took was delayed so he missed the vote(would have been 75 to 75 with him).



In other words, it passed because the NS is shit.
But i'm in favour of this law.

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It's a Socialist country what do you expect? They want everyone to be on equal footing. They are totally dependent on the government. Not saying we are not all to some extent.

America, please stop thinking everybody to the left of you is socialist.

[Matchu]

It is a big problem, as that creates an conflict of interest between the doctor and the patient.

In what respect? The doctor has a duty to save lives. Killing Patient A to put their organs into Patient B when they could save Patient A doesn't make any sense. They've basically saved someone and lost someone, whilst risking going to prison, instead of just saving Patient A.

[Ealyssa]

Yep, peer pressure people into doing what you want since the right of self-determination only exists on paper.

Like "peer pressure" is a bad thing... Maybe grow a pair ? If you want to be a dick after your life, that's fine. But society shouldn't obligated to agree with your shity choices

Self-determination is just like "free expression", its doesn't mean "free of consequences".

Have you opted in on your ID? I know I have.

Swiss law are more leniant. Once dead it's up to your family to choose for you. So you should express you will around you.
You can also get a "donor card" if you don't really trust your family or simply want things clear asap in the sad case you may be able to donate.

[McFuu]

I'm of the opinion that donation is a choice, not not-donating is a choice.