Am I the only one finding it increasingly weird to be having weapons like Doomhamer?

[A dot Ham]

As does everybody else in the game, regardless of whether they 'deserve' it or not; the weapons have no meaning if they're simply a showpiece for Blizzard throughwhich to stubbornly ignore the genre of their own flagship game.

When has your weapon or your gear been used to drive the story and the lore. It isn't just a gimmick to get people to play again... "Oh come back for legion and we'll give you this badass weapon for free."

The real problem is you special little snowflakes who think that gear should be a monument to your accomplishments.

The weapons are part of the story, they help drive home identity and give the player the sense that they are heroes. Whether or not millions of other people have accomplished the same thing before them is irrelevant. Like it or not, while this is primarily a multiplayer game, there is a single player aspect that cannot be ignored.

Your version of the game has everyone except for the elite 0.01% wielding curved sticks with gems, scuffed up butchers knives, and generic barbarian swords. Its boring and not something I am interested in playing. I am not just a cog in the machine, or some random cannon fodder.

If you are actually playing the game you know that someone who is investing the time can have a really powerful version of Ashbringer while another can have a much weaker version. So your real issue is not the power inherent behind said item, but how the weapon looks, and that the look alone brings prestige and honor. Which is exactly what we would come to expect from some elitest asshole who thinks that because he and 19 of his friends didn't bathe, eat, sleep, or go to work the week a new raid is launched and cleared the content before anyone else even got a glimpse of it, somehow makes him/her special. It doesn't.

I was never impressed by the statues that paraded themselves around Orgrimmar with their Sulfuras or Thunderfury. So really you haven't lost any "fans" no one cared what you looked like or accomplished back then, and now even when everyone wields the same weapons... I still don't care about what gear you have obtained or what you have accomplished.

I would love to play a game void of elitest pricks who want nothing short of a dull black and white experience for everyone except themselves. So go ahead... take away my artifact I don't care. But to me... regardless of how shiny or pretty your gear and matching weapons are... you will always be the guttersnipe of this world worthy of no more praise than that given to vagabond on my way into the super market. At least THAT dude has a story to tell.

We all wait on bated breath for you to tell us the tale of how you got your shiny purples... nah jk... no one cares.

[Jotaux]

Ashbringer is the only one that I feel weird about. Frostmourne shards aren't really the same thing and Doomhammer was eventually gonna be ours anyway:

That was fulfilled already with Thrall.

[MrKnubbles]

That's only really since WoD though. In the past we were just a bunch of mercenaries. Canonically we didn't actually kill Illidan, Arthas, etc. Story NPCs did that and we were just there. It's only weird because we weren't super important until now. It would be no problem at all if we were important from the start.

I'm pretty sure they reference us as the heroes that killed Arthas but I don't remember any dialogue referencing our triumphs in Black Temple. Either way, the NPCs know we are an extremely powerful group of heroes.

[Maudib]

I've been playing my shaman for a while now since the launch of Legion and never really thought much about wielding the legendary Doomhammer but one night I seen this old picture of Thrall holding Doomhammer and something in my head just clicked. Why of all people are we entrusted with this legendary weapon? We're just some random Joe Schmo who acts as a ghost in the general main story. Doomhammer is just a weapon yes but it's one of those weapons that you just don't reduce down to a play thing.

The worst part of that is when Thrall says "You have tapped into a greater power within Doomhammer I was never able to."

Really? It's official... I am the new ruler of Azeroth... I suppose someday it will be revealed that I am the Grand Titan, leader of all the Titans.

It does not feel right that these weapons came to us. (In the millions)

[Deleted]

I tend to agree. I dislike the overall idea that we are the most important people in the universe, artifacts are but a minor example of that. Sure we should be somewhat important, but we have become to important imo.

And it doesn't help that it's damned hard portraying the PC being so important in games. I'm the 'farseer' yet do not get to control the direction the earthen ring is taking, instead I'm still running errands for random nobody quest givers that treat me like shit half the time. Does not compute.

[Sansnom]

This is Thrall's weapon. It doesn't feel right when I have it like the name Doomhammer goes away and it just becomes Shaman Hammer ilvl 805.

Anyone else feel this way? It's not a big deal but something I have been thinking about recently.

I do. I always associated weapons with certain individuals, or position. So having me, as a player, being the welder of DoomHammer and the title World Shaman is kind of odd. Why they did not just hand the reins to another NPC and creating another artifact I do not know. I actually though it was weird when I first acquired and wondered where Thrall was going to go. That was before Metzen announcement. Not that I "predicted" this would happen, but it felt odd having Thrall kick ass up to now and THEN suddenly be beaten and declared he was weak was very strange.

Fortunately, I am not entirely enjoying the new Enhancement Shaman so will probably switch to Elemental once I reach 102 and hang up DoomHammer.

[Mhorrg]

It's a longtime flaw of WoW that they never figured out how to write a story where you're not personally saving the world.

From like a pen and paper game master perspective what they're doing is perfect and exactly how you want to run a campaign, but from an MMO and immersion perspective it's horrible.

[Archibalde]

When has your weapon or your gear been used to drive the story and the lore.

Wouldn't the legendary cloaks and rings count? While they were not at the center of the story, they certainly advanced it quite a bit. The legendary ring quest chain dealt with Gul'dan far more than the regular story did. It's where most of the lore came from and in a way it also set up parts of the Legion story.

[Deleted]

So I read throught the whole OP just to check and lo and behold, only Doomhammer and Ashbringer are the problem again. No fire mage sword, no MM bow, no survival spear. Because nooe cares about those. People just don't like that paladins and shamans got some cool weapons.

[Sunderella]

I've been playing my shaman for a while now since the launch of Legion and never really thought much about wielding the legendary Doomhammer but one night I seen this old picture of Thrall holding Doomhammer and something in my head just clicked. Why of all people are we entrusted with this legendary weapon? We're just some random Joe Schmo who acts as a ghost in the general main story. Doomhammer is just a weapon yes but it's one of those weapons that you just don't reduce down to a play thing. It's like having a Legend of Zelda MMO and seeing thousands of players wield the Master Sword. It would be a totally different thing if it was a single player game but seeing hundreds of people everyday with the same legendary weapon just breaks me out of immersion sometimes because there is only one Doomhammer and the game makes you feel special because you are "the chosen one" to wield it yet you see all these other people swinging it around.

This is Thrall's weapon. It doesn't feel right when I have it like the name Doomhammer goes away and it just becomes Shaman Hammer ilvl 805. I imagine it probably feels the same way with Ashbringer. I just feel like we should've had less iconic weapons and been given unique, original ones like pretty much the rest of the classes and Doomhammer should've been passed down to someone else like maybe Baine or something or maybe Thrall actually learns how to use it.

Anyone else feel this way? It's not a big deal but something I have been thinking about recently.

well, at least the Doomhammer has some propper lore and characters behind it. So you know you are wielding an important weapon. Meanwhile, as a rogue I get to wield the blades of a whatshername pirate that have absolutely no lore around them. Assa and Sub artifacts are as dull as the Dreadblades and Im sure may other classes have such uniteresting artifacts as rogues.

For the artifacts i know, the Doomhammer, Ashbringer and maybe DK artifacts (just because Shadowmourne hilt) are the only interesting ones. The rest feel like they were pulled out of nowhere to me.

[Lazy Gecko]

MMOs pretending to be single player games has been a thing for years now, and this is pretty much WoW keeping up with the joneses. Some people might dig the power fantasy pandering, but personally I think it just feels creatively bankrupt when we have a genre which opens up other potential avenues for storytelling than the archetypical Chosen One/Special snowflake structure with the entire world revolving around you which we see in practically every single player RPG.

Might just be that this is still what the majority of consumers want even in a MMORPG. Or it might just be that this is the direction writers/designers are so overwhelmingly used to given the long pedigree of pre-existing RPG story tropes, that they are simply unable to envision any alternative as compeling storytelling.

[Cirayne24]

It's a longtime flaw of WoW that they never figured out how to write a story where you're not personally saving the world.

From like a pen and paper game master perspective what they're doing is perfect and exactly how you want to run a campaign, but from an MMO and immersion perspective it's horrible.

It's a RPG and an MMO... it has to break immersion or it wouldn't be an MMO. Table top games can be as immersive as possible because the standard 5e party size is 4 people. Having 4 million people is going to break immersion unless after 3 people roll Shamans, no more can ever roll them... and of those 3, each can only be 1 spec, no duplicates. That's why you have to suspend disbelief or stop just stop playing with people. Sorry, in an MMO, especially WoW, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Besides, how fun would it be to just gear up Thrall, Varian, Sylv, Genn and have them go save the world? "Let's go raid ICC... heroes, clear trash for us, but let us kill the boss."

- - - Updated - - -

MMOs pretending to be single player games has been a thing for years now, and this is pretty much WoW keeping up with the joneses. Some people might dig the power fantasy pandering, but personally I think it just feels creatively bankrupt when we have a genre which opens up other potential avenues for storytelling than the archetypical Chosen One/Special snowflake structure with the entire world revolving around you which we see in practically every single player RPG.

Might just be that this is still what the majority of consumers want even in a MMORPG. Or it might just be that this is the direction writers/designers are so overwhelmingly used to given the long pedigree of pre-existing RPG story tropes, that they are simply unable to envision any alternative as compeling storytelling.

While I agree the story line feels just like every RPG, aren't most RPGs centered around the player becoming the champion or most influential person in the world. I can't think of one WRPG or JRPG where the character I play sits in the background. Why would I want to role-play a peon when I could role-play the hero?

And WoW has to stay fresh... it's been around for 12 years. Some players have been playing the same character longer than my nephew has been alive. So why aren't these characters worthy of using the strongest weapons in the universe, especially after saving the world numerous times?

[Mhorrg]

It's a RPG and an MMO... it has to break immersion or it wouldn't be an MMO. Table top games can be as immersive as possible because the standard 5e party size is 4 people. Having 4 million people is going to break immersion unless after 3 people roll Shamans, no more can ever roll them... and of those 3, each can only be 1 spec, no duplicates. That's why you have to suspend disbelief or stop just stop playing with people. Sorry, in an MMO, especially WoW, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

That's the thing, they COULD write it work out but basically their writing team seems to be more suited for a single player RPG than a multiplayer one.

There are hundreds of games throughout the years where you play grunt number 3 and they're still written fantastically.

The game should be written so that the gameplay and the narrative merge. You down raid bosses with 20 other players so the writing should be based around the idea of being one of 20 other people in a group. The story should be focusing on the organizations we join not necessarily us.

Yes, working to gear up Thrall would be boring. Working to build up a faction you belong to, however, would not especially if you're also gaining benefits from this.

Did you play at the opening of AQ? Where a whole server had to band together to gather materials to progress the world? That was the most immersive thing Blizzard has ever done and the events of that opening became part of the history of a server. That's how you write MMOs.

[shaunika123]

The player plays a much more important role in the world and in the story than you think.

the problem is that all x million players cant be equally important in the story, we dont fit

it just doesnt work in an MMO

[Deleted]

the problem is that all x million players cant be equally important in the story, we dont fit

it just doesnt work in an MMO

Or you just have to be able to separate lore from gameplay.

[Cirayne24]

That's the thing, they COULD write it work out but basically their writing team seems to be more suited for a single player RPG than a multiplayer one.

There are hundreds of games throughout the years where you play grunt number 3 and they're still written fantastically.

The game should be written so that the gameplay and the narrative merge. You down raid bosses with 20 other players so the writing should be based around the idea of being one of 20 other people in a group. The story should be focusing on the organizations we join not necessarily us.

Yes, working to gear up Thrall would be boring. Working to build up a faction you belong to, however, would not especially if you're also gaining benefits from this.

Did you play at the opening of AQ? Where a whole server had to band together to gather materials to progress the world? That was the most immersive thing Blizzard has ever done and the events of that opening became part of the history of a server. That's how you write MMOs.

Yes I played in AQ, and yes it was fun, and yes I remember setting up a train and kiting those big bugs to town. It was fun, it was epic, it was before server imbalances made it terrible to be on the other faction (different problem, but leads to the fact if you need Horde and Alliance to work together, good luck on servers like Illidan, Korgath, Tich).

But that's the thing, we've never been random grunt 3. Maybe while leveling we were, but at 60 we discovered Onyxia in Stormwind, we stopped her brother Nef, we stopped the Old Gods. And the leaders do say Champions, but who gets to be the champions? Only the first 40 then 20/10 people that kill the boss?

Sorry, after stopping Old Gods and the Burning Legion a couple times, how could I go back to being Grunt #3? Even Eitrigg ranked up throughout the years, and he never slew dragons.

[Mhorrg]

We wouldn't have to be grunt number 3 now, but we could be one of many heroes. A grouping of Azeroth's best brought together in a dire hour.

It's just lazy writing to make us all the big, number one hero.

[shaunika123]

Or you just have to be able to separate lore from gameplay.

should you though? that just ruins immersion

[Deleted]

should you though? that just ruins immersion

A lot of things ruins immersion.
I can easily imagine myself being the Highlord, while other paladins running around are just elite Silver Hand dudes with big swords on their backs. Not that different than seeing Blackhands everywhere.

[Cirayne24]

We wouldn't have to be grunt number 3 now, but we could be one of many heroes. A grouping of Azeroth's best brought together in a dire hour.

It's just lazy writing to make us all the big, number one hero.

Is it really hard for people to use their imagination and pretend the other people running around are their Death Knights under them as the Death Lord... or whatever other title classes get?

Don't play if you don't like it, but I like being the big number one hero who slew dragons, dethroned kings and put old gods back to sleep.