Is 850 item level gear incentive enough to do kara?

[Otimus]

Yes? Have you done normal raids? They are LFR+1.

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Queueable content is bad for the genre as a whole. Make friends and join a guild.

That's your opinion, and I disagree with it.

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The non-queueable content is one of the best parts of this expansion.
Doing Arcway and Court of Stars for the first time felt waaaay better then doing any of the other mythic dungeons.
Going underneath Suramar with a premade group to clear a dungeon thats not faceroll (even though they kind of were with our ilvl) gave a way more epic feel then just queueing for a dungeon u can basically complete without focussing on the game.

Go play on a wod private server if u want all content to be queueable.

How in the world would you jump to that extreme?

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The only reason anyone would complain about I LFG is because they want to be invited regardless of class, ilevel, spec or anything else that may hinder them from getting in and of course, theyget to put in the most minimal amount of effort since kicking someone requires a vote and in tries WoW fashion, rarely happens even when people are ask for 80% of the run.

You want to see content? Put in some effort and be social in a social game.

Is it REALLY a social game, though?

Like, maybe 5% of the total content requires you to actually be social.


Anyways, I really do wonder why we can't have civil discourse. It's always "if you disagree with me, you're bad for the game and I hate you and only my one way of thinking is right."

[threeks]

Well, it is a mythic (weekly lock out), so there isn't any other way I'll get to do it. I don't have access to healers or tanks.

Pugging through LFG is both easy and has gone very well so far. Sounds like you're just crippling yourself.

[ShiyoKozuki]

That's your opinion, and I disagree with it.

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How in the world would you jump to that extreme?

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Is it REALLY a social game, though?

Like, maybe 5% of the total content requires you to actually be social.


Anyways, I really do wonder why we can't have civil discourse. It's always "if you disagree with me, you're bad for the game and I hate you and only my one way of thinking is right."

Queueable content IS bad for the game, and genre. If you've been playing MMO's for as long as me(~15 years) you'd know from personal experience.

[Otimus]

Queueable content IS bad for the game, and genre. If you've been playing MMO's for as long as me(~15 years) you'd know from personal experience.

I've been playing MMO's for 10 years, though!

Queuable content exists for a reason, and that reason isn't entirely because of convenience.

There's a reason people get pissed off when new MMO's don't have it right away, y'know.

In any event, I actually think the group finder would suffice as a total replacement if it only had one huge change: You could list yourself as available to be invited for things, too, rather than only being able to sign up for things. (That's how some other MMO's do it, for example).

[Dilbon]

Queueable content IS bad for the game, and genre. If you've been playing MMO's for as long as me(~15 years) you'd know from personal experience.

The genre has changed, WoW is completely different from early games. Content needs to be queueable given the way things are now.

[Dastreus]

How are all these people getting 850 itemlevel??? Isn't the heroic gear 830? I haven't done any heroics, yet. I just hit 811 itemlevel.

[Otimus]

How are all these people getting 850 itemlevel??? Isn't the heroic gear 830? I haven't done any heroics, yet. I just hit 811 itemlevel.

I'm 843, and I've barely gotten any gear (that is actually an upgrade) from heroics, I've only done one mythic and didn't get any gear from it. I do have 7/8 of the class hall set unlocked, (though only using 6) and that's a good portion of it. Most everything else was world quests. Oh, and I did buy an 840 cloak for 8,000g on the AH. (I also got real lucky early on and got an 850 titanforged neck from a WQ!)

[SirCowdog]

The only reason anyone would complain about I LFG is because they want to be invited regardless of class, ilevel, spec or anything else that may hinder them from getting in

And this is a BAD thing? The matchmaker prevents the rampant elitism that happens. If a player is legitimately bad, then votekick works as intended.

and of course, theyget to put in the most minimal amount of effort since kicking someone requires a vote and in tries WoW fashion, rarely happens even when people are ask for 80% of the run.

You want to see content? Put in some effort and be social in a social game.

What do you even think LFR is for? Put in minimal effort and get minimal results. Mythic is fine where it is outside the matchmaking. But there needs to be normal and heroic as well tha IS in the matchmaking.

[ShiyoKozuki]

The genre has changed, WoW is completely different from early games. Content needs to be queueable given the way things are now.

It's changed for the worst and regressed to the state the game was in WoW.

[Wingspan]

Queueable content IS bad for the game, and genre. If you've been playing MMO's for as long as me(~15 years) you'd know from personal experience.

There is basically no real evidence to support this belief. If there were, the practice of having queued content would have died off years ago.


It may not be what you like... but there is no evidence (at all) that it does more harm than good.

[schwarzkopf]

Pugging through LFG is both easy and has gone very well so far.

LOL - you have an unusual definition of 'easy'.... as a dps, getting a Mythic Arcway pug has so far been impossible.

[Jacob6875]

How are all these people getting 850 itemlevel??? Isn't the heroic gear 830? I haven't done any heroics, yet. I just hit 811 itemlevel.

I'm 842 and have no gear from Mythic dungeons or any Legendaries. I'm close to revered with 2 factions and 100k artifact power so that's 2 more 850 items soon as well.

I usually get 1 or 2 world quests a day with epic items. That combined with an entire 840-850 set of order hall gear makes it pretty easy.

With the addition of LFR and normal raids soon it will be very easy to get above 850 with little effort.

[goblingirl]

It is on par with the tier. Unfortunately, though, it's not enough to make me want to run Kara over and over again. I'll run it once or twice to satisfy my curiousity and complete any quests associated with it, then I'll be done with it.

I get that a lot of people have fond nostalgic feelings for the original Kara, but unfortunately I do not. I was in a very large and very happy Classic guild that was perfectly staffed to run the raid sizes in Classic. And we didn't have crappy freeloaders, everyone did their jobs and we had good runs. The release of BC, with it's 10 and 25 man raids, absolutely destroyed us and caused all kinds of frustration and sadness. People got sat out, pushed out, and sidelined not because they weren't good players but because there simply wasn't room for all of us. Some quit for other guilds, some quit the game entirely, and those of us who were left struggled with the fallout, missing friends and a lot of strife to do with newly formed cliques and politics around keeping raid spots in an overstaffed guild.

Karazhan reminds me of a pretty shitty time in WoW, unfortunately. I'll run it to satisfy my completionism and then not go back.

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

So Emerald Nightmare drops 850 on normal and heroic 865, what the hell is the point of karazhan then? Nothing there is usefull

[Chickat]

Thats why I think 860-870 would be a good item level for it.

[makketota]

10 ilvl is much higher when we are talking about NINE bosses and when you consider the new tforge system.
But its still a 5 man.
Do you really think it should drop gear higher than normal raids?
I do not.

If its harder than normal raids then yeah it should imo.

[HumbleDuck]

850 ilvl is complete and utter trash, what? Are they serious?
Normal mode raid requires barely any working brain cells and gives the same ilvl, this is 100% unacceptable. Bait and switch to the extreme. They advertise huge focus on 5 mans and then the expac ends up being raid or die again.

I guess they got our money, so it's all they care about.

You trash an entire expansion, nay an entire company, because the base ilvl of a 5 man drop is not as high as you desire?
Seriously?

[melodramocracy]

I'm 843, and I've barely gotten any gear (that is actually an upgrade) from heroics, I've only done one mythic and didn't get any gear from it. I do have 7/8 of the class hall set unlocked, (though only using 6) and that's a good portion of it. Most everything else was world quests. Oh, and I did buy an 840 cloak for 8,000g on the AH. (I also got real lucky early on and got an 850 titanforged neck from a WQ!)

839, bunch of heroics, probably 9 mythics so far. RNG is a bitch.

[sanchoz]

I'm fine with it considering the warforged system. just looking forward to seeing what they've done with it tbh, it's not really going to be about the gear so much rather than just experience kara again in a different format

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

We're getting possibly Blizz's best dungeon ever, and all people can talk about is whether the loot will be upgrades? Otherwise maybe they'll skip it?

THIS JUST IN: ALL OF YOUR LOOT UPGRADES ARE NUMBERS SOON TO BE REPLACED.

You win the game by having fun. Karazhan could well be Blizz's masterpiece.

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LOL - you have an unusual definition of 'easy'.... as a dps, getting a Mythic Arcway pug has so far been impossible.

No, you're just limiting yourself by not starting a group. People pugging for DPS will generally grab the highest number in queue. If they don't know you from Adam, that's all they have to go on so why not take the high number? Maybe occasionally they go for a spec with hero if they don't have it, ranged if they're currently all melee, etc., but mostly just highest I-lvl of those applying.

If you start your own group, none of that will matter. Your group won't fill as fast as if you were tank or healer. I know this because I play both tanks and dps. When you start a group as DPS, first all you'll get are two more DPS (they were also struggling to find groups). The tanks and healers can afford to be picky, so they'll look for groups closest to full and ready to go. They'd love to find a group that already has their counterpart, but those aren't always available in queue, so eventually one of them will pick the group that at least has 3 DPS. Once you get one, the other follows pretty quick.

Five minutes to start a group as tank or healer, closer to 20 if you're DPS.

But impossible? Not at all. Done it many times.

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How are all these people getting 850 itemlevel??? Isn't the heroic gear 830? I haven't done any heroics, yet. I just hit 811 itemlevel.

I've gotten 850 pieces from world quests. Just keep playing; gear will come.

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Well, it is a mythic (weekly lock out), so there isn't any other way I'll get to do it. I don't have access to healers or tanks.

That's what group finder is for. My rogue and hunter use it to find healers and tanks every week. Those players don't know me anymore than they know you. If they join my group, they'll join yours too.