nerf incoming...

[Interim]

lol @ people in here acting like its the end of the world with the incoming nerfs.



you really aren't paying attention if you don't notice the insane damage WW/DH are doing in overall damage in mythics.

Yea cause balance is based around packs of mobs that die in < 10 seconds...

[LavenderBee]

By the way, just checked Simcraft for some ST numbers.. I know it's not final and performance matters... but i didn't expect a 70k dps difference between top1 (arms w) and ww monks (middle of the pack). AWarlocks are 110k dps behind (>30%!).
Why the hell devs are wasting time on balancing trash cleave damage, when some specs are completely broken in raids?

[parkerlewis]

Same thing happened to me as a Frost DK in 6.2 so I'm not too surprised. Strong damage was somehow not picked up/corrected for during all of a prolonged beta period, then suddenly within a few weeks of going live the 'fun detection meter' goes off at Blizzard HQ and they reach for the nerf bat.

Hope Blizzard is true to their word and WW can still 'excel' at AOE for 5mans because I'd like to be able to still get invites to Mythic+ groups when the time comes.

[Carthh]

You guys missed the entire point off the logs I posted. I wasn't posting them to epeen or compare dps numbers to other classes or how much damage we do under a minute. The point of the logs was to show a breakdown of our damage abilities so you could look and compare the percentage of our damage that SoTW makes up on single, cleave, and aoe. We don't even know what the nerf is but I was trying to provide a basis to look at and see how our numbers could change depending on the nerf. I should have linked to a specific boss with only my numbers showing and pointed to exactly what I was trying to say instead of assuming most people would extrapolate the data I was referring to. I apologize for the confusion I caused.

[nightmann]

Yeah, I'm not sure who thought that burst damage on trash packs in 5-mans was a big issue, but ok.

I suppose as long as our single target is left alone or brought up a notch it'll be ok. Still, seems like the most pointless thing to have looked at right now.

Because blizz fired half the d3 team, and the other half came on to wow to design legion. Which means, we have portal runs *cough* mythic key runs for top level gear, and being able to clear trash to beat the clock is going to be the most important thing.

[Deleted]

I'm a bit afraid about the tank-nerf (we’re planning on deploying hotfixes that reduce tank damage output across the board).
From what i've seen we are by far the last tank in kind of DPS...ST and AE.
And tbh, if a DPS with the same level of gear can't out-damage a tank in every single situation they're just bad.

Also, during WoD Beta Blizzard stated that they want tanks to do about 75% DPS of a pure DPS (to compensate the removal of Vengeance), but even now a well played DPS do like 2 to 2.5 times of our DPS.

[halfawake]

They'll probably give it the howling blast treatment, reduced damage on anything you're not targeting. That way they can buff the damage on the primary target for single target buffs. Hopefully it's not something ridiculous like 50% reduced damage to secondary targets, that would make me very sad.

[DrMcNinja]

Yeah, I'm not sure who thought that burst damage on trash packs in 5-mans was a big issue, but ok.

I suppose as long as our single target is left alone or brought up a notch it'll be ok. Still, seems like the most pointless thing to have looked at right now.

Burst damage is fine, but Strike was a literal nuke on a low CD. I believe someone said it was one of the hardest damage-per-buttonpress abilities in the game.

[nightmann]

Burst damage is fine, but Strike was a literal nuke on a low CD. I believe someone said it was one of the hardest damage-per-buttonpress abilities in the game.

Someone has to have the hardest damage-per-button press in the game, why can't it be monks?

[parkerlewis]

My concern is that WW DPS is niche (closely-grouped AOE packs) and also has peaked early in the expansion, with other classes standing to gain more as they level up their artifacts while most of the WW artifact unlocks are mediocre.

Heroic and Mythic+0 dungeons are absolute best case scenarios for the WW toolkit, with stuff tending to be closely grouped and dying in just the amount of time it takes for us to get our AOE/cleave cooldowns off. That won't be the case in raids or harder levels of Mythic+ where we'll be middle of the pack for longer and more spread out/single-target fights.

I would have expected other classes to catch up as artifact knowledge progresses over the next weeks/months anyway, and getting nerfed before mythic+ and raids are even released feels a little premature to me.

[minteK917]

My concern is that WW DPS is niche (closely-grouped AOE packs) and also has peaked early in the expansion, with other classes standing to gain more as they level up their artifacts while most of the WW artifact unlocks are mediocre.

Heroic and Mythic+0 dungeons are absolute best case scenarios for the WW toolkit, with stuff tending to be closely grouped and dying in just the amount of time it takes for us to get our AOE/cleave cooldowns off. That won't be the case in raids or harder levels of Mythic+.

You claim that, but you dont know about any other classes lol. You guys complain about outlaw, but anything meaningfull for outlaw is already unlocked for pretty much every outlaw rogue right now? Most arm warrios have their 3 golden trait, list goes on. Plz learn other classes if you are gona make such baseless claims.

[Fritters154]

Burst damage is fine, but Strike was a literal nuke on a low CD. I believe someone said it was one of the hardest damage-per-buttonpress abilities in the game.

Not going to argue that it's not insanely OP. It is, and they are going with the specific nerf I expected to happen.

However, why shouldn't an artifact ability be one of the hardest damage-per-buttonpress abilities in the game? To me, the issue was that 80% of the artifact abilities are incredibly lackluster and a select few were absurdly powerful. All are useful, but only a few really bring out the essence of the incredibly powerful weapons we are supposed to be using.

[Hottie4Hire]

Last night, I did 1.2M sustained DPS over 30 seconds as WW. They could literally remove Strike and it would still be the second best burst AOE class. We're fine. That quote says they'll nerf the AOE part of the ability. This means that targets beyond the primary will take less damage. Single target is unaffected.

We are fine. I loved being OP too, but it's not the end of the world so long as Blizzard does what they say.

Just in case, I'm leveling a DH.

[A dot Ham]

Indeed, i mean it's no secret even on a boss with NO movement needed i still cant keep up with other classes, especially Monks, rogues, DH and Hunters. Elemental is just in need of some serious boosts.

You would have thought you'd have learned your lesson in WoD.

Fool me once shame on you.

Fool me twice shame on me.

[Saverem]

lol @ people in here acting like its the end of the world with the incoming nerfs.



you really aren't paying attention if you don't notice the insane damage WW/DH are doing in overall damage in mythics.

That's like nerfing a class for PvP because they're too good in /duels.

[LavenderBee]

That's like nerfing a class for PvP because they're too good in /duels.

Actually happened to Blood DKs, Ferals, aLocks and others. And thats just WoD/Prepatch.
No surprises in Blizz logic here lul

[angryavocado]

My concern is that WW DPS is niche (closely-grouped AOE packs) and also has peaked early in the expansion, with other classes standing to gain more as they level up their artifacts while most of the WW artifact unlocks are mediocre.

Heroic and Mythic+0 dungeons are absolute best case scenarios for the WW toolkit, with stuff tending to be closely grouped and dying in just the amount of time it takes for us to get our AOE/cleave cooldowns off. That won't be the case in raids or harder levels of Mythic+ where we'll be middle of the pack for longer and more spread out/single-target fights.

I would have expected other classes to catch up as artifact knowledge progresses over the next weeks/months anyway, and getting nerfed before mythic+ and raids are even released feels a little premature to me.

Agreed. I think we've peaked and I'm worried it's only down from here. I used to destroy everyone in Mythics when everyone was 810-830 ilvl, but I've noticed other classes creeping closer to me on the meters (DH, Hunters, Rogues) as we've gotten to 845ish ilvl.

On tank DPS, I've seen some tanks average >200k for entire runs (druids, DKs, and pallies). That's pretty damn high for a tank. Can't speak to BrMs though...haven't tried it nor played with one.

[Deleted]

I hate nerfs, everyone hates nerfs.
As a fellow WW monk it pains me to get nerfs, but i think everyone saw this coming.
I think our aoe burst is a little out of control and i understand if they nerd damage of our artifact or the cd. I personally hope they nerf the cd

- - - Updated - - -

Agreed. I think we've peaked and I'm worried it's only down from here. I used to destroy everyone in Mythics when everyone was 810-830 ilvl, but I've noticed other classes creeping closer to me on the meters (DH, Hunters, Rogues) as we've gotten to 845ish ilvl.

On tank DPS, I've seen some tanks average >200k for entire runs (druids, DKs, and pallies). That's pretty damn high for a tank. Can't speak to BrMs though...haven't tried it nor played with one.

Agreed on the tank part. I think they said somewhere that they are nerfing tank dmg

[Hinalover]

I hate nerfs, everyone hates nerfs.
As a fellow WW monk it pains me to get nerfs, but i think everyone saw this coming.
I think our aoe burst is a little out of control and i understand if they nerd damage of our artifact or the cd. I personally hope they nerf the cd

Actually I can see them using WoD FoF as a basis. Nerf it so that the primary target gets hit with full damage, and any supplimental targets will get hit with 1/(n targets) damage.

So 3 targets will be 100% to primary target, 33% each to the cleaved targets.
5 targets will be 100% and 20% each to cleaved targets

[Sturmcantor]

Every boss fight was under a minute save one, and in the only boss fight that lasted over a minute his dps was half of what it was in the minute fights. For a guy obsessed with worthless logs that tell us nothing, you sure don't look through them. No one cares about dps in encounters that are 1-2 minutes long. Using logs in mythic dungeons is not only besides the point, it's a waste of breath.

It's almost like in that long fight he has only 57% activity time since that's the fight where you get teleported away from the boss and have to run all the way back through the sewers to him. Oh wait. That is how that fight goes. But if you had a) done Arcway or b) looked at the log, you'd know that, and not posted this.