What are your thoughts on Soul Barrier?

[ro9ue]

I know that Last Resort is super good (basically a better Purgatory). So is Nether Bond.

But for me personally, I feel like Soul Barrier is such a good addition to my kit as a tank, that I don't want to go without it. It actually has some interesting gameplay too. When I know my SB is coming off CD, I pool frags. Try to get 5-6+. Massive 800k shield. Then you can additionally add to it with more frags.

It definitely takes more work, but I'm fully sold on Soul Barrier.


I'd like to know everyones' thoughts. Soul Barrier... why or why not?

[Typhoria]

Soul Barrier is the best IMO. It applies a massive shield on use + a persistent shield for 20s. Last Resort doesn't make it less stressful for healers. Netherbond is a little cumbersome since you have to target an ally and any aoe would make it more stressful for them.

[Azszora]

Soul Barrier would be my go-to talent if Last Resort didn't exist.

[aikanaro]

Soul Barrier is the best IMO. It applies a massive shield on use + a persistent shield for 20s.

Shield only lasts 8 seconds.

I love it also, what people don't understand about it is that you can use it with 0 shards up. After that any soul you suck in using soul cleave (or from using it) heals you AND gives you more absorb.

[vulena]

Soul Barrier is the best IMO. It applies a massive shield on use + a persistent shield for 20s. Last Resort doesn't make it less stressful for healers. Netherbond is a little cumbersome since you have to target an ally and any aoe would make it more stressful for them.

It lasts 8 seconds, not 20, and is not massive.

I tried it out last night in a Mythic run. It's basically bullshit once you get to anything resembling challenging content. The DR is significantly less than DS provides, costs more pain, gives you fewer Soul Cleaves and makes those Soul Cleaves slightly worse by taking away orbs (minor, but still).

That said, unless you die, Last Resort doesn't do anything, and Nether's so niche it's absurd.

[Saiyendra]

That said, unless you die, Last Resort doesn't do anything, and Nether's so niche it's absurd.

Last Resort still helps even if you don't die. The buffer it provides means that healers can play more efficiently as they don't have to panic heal you when your health drops.

[Deleted]

My view is this:

Am I doing content where I might actually die? If yes, then Last Resort is clearly the winner. If no, then why would I use an ability like Soul Barrier, when I could use that Pain for more Soul Cleaves and thus more damage. Therefore, the answer is clear, that Last Resort is the winner.

[vulena]

Last Resort still helps even if you don't die. The buffer it provides means that healers can play more efficiently as they don't have to panic heal you when your health drops.

"Talents are helpful even when they're not used"

That is literally the single stupidest thing I've ever seen posted on this site. Congrats.

[ro9ue]

It lasts 8 seconds, not 20, and is not massive.

I tried it out last night in a Mythic run. It's basically bullshit once you get to anything resembling challenging content. The DR is significantly less than DS provides, costs more pain, gives you fewer Soul Cleaves and makes those Soul Cleaves slightly worse by taking away orbs (minor, but still).

That said, unless you die, Last Resort doesn't do anything, and Nether's so niche it's absurd.

I've cleared every Mythic dungeon which is the most challenging content available to us at the moment. Soul Barrier is a rockstar if you play it correctly. I agree that an 8 second window is short, but it has a 20 second CD so it's basically a 40% uptime. If you use it when you have a ton of frags out it's a beast, and then you can add even more if you get some within that window.

Considering I generally never went below 80% hp, even when multiple packs pulled... I think Soul Barrier is the way to go. I even solo'd a good portion of the Mythic Helya encounter, it was more spikey but Soul Barrier was super useful, and the fact that I have control over the situation instead of getting the use out of Last Resort by just dying... I still find it superior.


As an above poster said, if the risk of death is much higher, possibly a higher keystone... maybe Last Resort becomes more attractive. Right now though, Soul Barrier is my choice.

Obviously its subjective and playstyle, but I just wanted to call out I'm not use this for like WQ or normals, or even heroics. I'm running it in Mythic Dungeons and it's still effective in my experience.

[Raiju]

"Talents are helpful even when they're not used"

That is literally the single stupidest thing I've ever seen posted on this site. Congrats.

The fact you don't understand means you probably don't need to be part of the discussion and maybe should go to easier sites suited to your level of discussion.

In less than challenging content LR means the healer can effectively ignore the DH until it's procced - and if it procs its a dps increase. If it doesn't the healer can heal others or dps.

In content where there's any real risk of you dying with healer attention it's by far the strongest.

The only time another talent on the row beats it is if you have a specific use of nether bond for a specific fight.

I agree Soul barrier is trash tier though, and the benefit in proactive mitigation does not justify the absolute loss the talent poses in terms of Action economy, dps, and survival.

I will point out that mythic helya if you can avoid/interrupt is a complete joke of encounter on p2 - did the same on mythic week 1 in around 815 ilvl. The damage is not representative of anything (basically the only thing that is is multipulling atm - which they'll shred through you 8 seconds later)

[Jellospally]

"Talents are helpful even when they're not used"

That is literally the single stupidest thing I've ever seen posted on this site. Congrats.

You are clueless to how useful a cheat is even if it doesn't proc.

In raids that 60k absorb that can't be broken isn't even a factor might as well ignore it. The 450k + 75k per soul is quite weak. When I have to spend half a soul cleave around every 20 seconds on it and using all my souls on a shield that absorbs for about 10% more than a single soul cleave would heal for.

So I am specing a talent that gives me like 20% more healing as an absorb at most once every 20 seconds for half the pain of a soul cleave instead of taking a cheat death that allows me to literally not die for the next 15 seconds after it procs as well because of 50% leech? Ya thats the dumbest logic I have seen in a while.

Healers knowing you have a cheat is way more valuable even if it never procs than a button that is almost neutral with just doing your normal rotation and a button that makes you lose dps.

Why do you think Blood DKs take purg on anything besides 5 mans? Because cheat is more valuable. Sure they don't exactly have the choice between Last Resort and Soul Barrier, but cheat is a cheat that allows you to push more dps.

[Forgottenone]

-snip-

On my DH I soloed half of the Mythic Helya fight since my guildies went full derp mode. Now I did it with Last Resort, so my question is just useful is Soul Barrier? Trivial content such as heroics and current mythics isn't what concerns me, what I am really interested in is mythic+ keystone runs and raiding. Do you think Soul Barrier or Nether Bond has a place there or is Last Resort just that strong?

You are clueless to how useful a cheat is even if it doesn't proc.

In raids that 60k absorb that can't be broken isn't even a factor might as well ignore it. The 450k + 75k per soul is quite weak. When I have to spend half a soul cleave around every 20 seconds on it and using all my souls on a shield that absorbs for about 10% more than a single soul cleave would heal for.

So I am specing a talent that gives me 10% more healing as an absorb at most once every 20 seconds for half the pain of a soul cleave instead of taking a cheat death that allows me to literally not die for the next 15 seconds after it procs as well because of 50% leech? Ya thats the dumbest logic I have seen in a while.

Healers knowing you have a cheat is way more valuable even if it never procs than a button that is almost neutral with just doing your normal rotation and a button that makes you lose dps.

This is how my pocket healer and I work, when he knows my Last Resort is available it allows him and I to both change our play style. I opt for more damage and he can heal everyone else significantly better. However once it has been used I play extremely defensive and he focuses on me more. So far it has been a god send for how we play.

[Munkky]

Just gonna leave this here for anyone interested in some good wholesome theorycrafting instead of "Feelcraft".

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...?usp=drive_web

[oAllElseFailo]

Can you guys just decide to use which ever one you feel is better? I think this "Soul barrier vs last resort" has been beat to death and there obviously won't be one clear winner. So shut up, stop making these topics, and play what you want.

[Veiled Shadow]

Can you guys just decide to use which ever one you feel is better? I think this "Soul barrier vs last resort" has been beat to death and there obviously won't be one clear winner. So shut up, stop making these topics, and play what you want.

There is a clear winner, though. Soul Barrier is only used by inexperienced people doing trivial content. No one using this talent offers any cogent arguments for it besides "well it feels good in a mythic+0 dungeon." They don't take into account the huge value of cheat death mechanics as a tank (let alone the fact that Last Resort has 15 seconds of invincibility accompanying it), and that healer throughput on tanks is almost never an issue - especially as a DH.

[oAllElseFailo]

There is a clear winner, though. Soul Barrier is only used by inexperienced people doing trivial content. No one using this talent offers any cogent arguments for it besides "well it feels good in a mythic+0 dungeon."

Okay and to you (and me) last resort is better. But these people picking soul barrier obviously don't agree. I mean this topic just keeps getting brought up with the same exact arguments repeating each other. Thus, there is not a clear winner. Someone is going to say this is better than that because x, y, and z

[ro9ue]

Just gonna leave this here for anyone interested in some good wholesome theorycrafting instead of "Feelcraft".

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...?usp=drive_web

That's basically saying that Soul Barrier is 10% damage reduction. You can't math it though. It's a more complex mechanic than that. You can be deliberate when you use it and get massive fucking shield up prior to a huge hitting ability. Thing of HoV shield beam or Oakheart's grip. Boiling down Soul Barrier to "just basically a flat 10% damage reduction" is totally inaccurate.

Bottom line is, these talents can't be "mathed" out. There is no right answer. I agree with the above posters who said if we get into progression mythic raids or high keystone mythics where death is much more likely... then Last Resort wins out. I have no fear of death whatsoever in any currently available content so it's just flat out useless right now.

- - - Updated - - -

There is a clear winner, though. Soul Barrier is only used by inexperienced people doing trivial content. No one using this talent offers any cogent arguments for it besides "well it feels good in a mythic+0 dungeon." They don't take into account the huge value of cheat death mechanics as a tank (let alone the fact that Last Resort has 15 seconds of invincibility accompanying it), and that healer throughput on tanks is almost never an issue - especially as a DH.

No offense, but I never die in any regular Mythic dungeon or any currently available content. So Last Resort is never needed. If you're getting a ton of use out of it, it sounds like that Last Resort is for more inexperienced players who are dying more often.

[Munkky]

I mentioned the base heal in the second paragraph. You didn't even read the third paragraph. If you aren't proccing Last Resort in dungeons you are using it wrong. You simply pull a large amount of mobs and don't die cause Last Resort will make you invincible for 15 seconds. Which means you aren't going to do well in Mythic+.

Also the talk of it being bad in high level m+ or raids is based on my multiple posts/threads and months of discussions about this topic.

[Raiju]

No offense, but I never die in any regular Mythic dungeon or any currently available content. So Last Resort is never needed. If you're getting a ton of use out of it, it sounds like that Last Resort is for more inexperienced players who are dying more often.

Or they're doing dungeons more efficiently than you.

[Jazzhands]

No offense, but I never die in any regular Mythic dungeon or any currently available content. So Last Resort is never needed. If you're getting a ton of use out of it, it sounds like that Last Resort is for more inexperienced players who are dying more often.

We use Last Resort as a DPS cooldown in mythics, because my healer knows what he's doing. I even run Crit/Mastery because those are the Vengeance DPS priorities, compared to Vers/Haste for survivability. The shield is pretty useless in current content with a competent healer, and won't be any better in content that hits harder. Last Resort is more than just a defensive cheat death, Soul Barrier is just an unneeded shield. I could mitigate a ton of damage with Soul Barrier and leave my healer twirling his thumbs doing nothing, or I could be doing truck loads of damage while my healer gets to heal.