I appreciate those that want to PVP, but come on...

[Underverse]

I like pvp, but have not found it necessary at all for pve progression. I have no idea what you're talking about. Do pve world quests, run dungeons, do missions.

[Deleted]

"http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2024093-Artifact-Knowledge-Bonus-Observed-and-Projected-to-L25-Cap"

This says at 16 days its 140%, not 450%, where are you pulling your numbers?

And if they are adding 140% not just "140%" its still only 305% on 16days. wich means if a wq gave you 150ap it now gives you 607/8.. and thats after 16days ingame..thats not fast at all xD

Oh that is true, I remembered the number wrong. However it is still fast. It grows at around half the rate I thought, so in 16 days is 40%, 32 days 1.6%. All effort is still obsolete in 32 days. The gap just stays bigger for a while longer.

And like has been said, it's not even recommended to focus on only one artifact. The required amounts are basically a soft cap, you'll be caught up in just few days even if other focus elsewhere. It's just better to wait for more Knowledge.
Have you seen that pic? You can have main artifact at 18 or at 17 + offspec at 13. And here we are talking about a single wq, not a whole focus difference. (Numbers not accurate but the same idea)

[rebecca191]

If you want to progress through professions you're probably screwed.

And then there's the flag the gets up while on a taxied flightpath...(wtf?)

Blizz is trolling the PvE crowd.

LOL they never fixed that? I reported it in beta and saw tons of reports from others as well....

[Resike]

Except you're not doing them in a vacuum. If you aren't doing those world quests you are doing something else instead in game. If you are concerned about artifact power and you prefer pve over pvp, you are probably running dungeons. You might get slightly more artifact power jumping from pvp zone to pvp zone, but not that much more if any compared to spamming dungeons. If you take that 36%, and subtract out all the artifact power you would have gotten doing dungeons instead, it should be less than 10% if you have bad pugs. If you have a strong premade group with well geared guildees, you'll get far more artifact power spamming out dungeons. 4+ random heroics per hour with a good group gives a lot of artifact power.

One PVP world quest takes 5 minues + the flying there. One dungeon/battleground takes at least 15 minutes. Both method gives the same AP. You do the math.

[Zuben]

Doing the archaeology quests in Stormheim, I was assigned a survey site twice on a PvP-focused area. Just... Why the fuck? Sure, there are 4 sites total at all times so I can skip the PVP-one, but the question still remains. Why would a Blizz employee assign a task of monotonous solo content on a PvP-heavy area? How the hell do the two go together?

[Mhorrg]

It makes all the sense in the world that a game with both PvE and PvP content would occasionally make you do both.

This said as someone who spent 99% of his WoW career on RP-PvE servers.

[Jewsco]

How exactly were you "forced" to pvp? Did someone drag you in that area? Was the reward impossible to get otherwise? Was the quest even remotely obligatory? Was the area so tiny that you couldn't avoid other players? Was it impossible to make a group of players and venture through that nasty area without danger of being ganked?

What am I missing here? Please help me understand how exactly did you end up being "forced". Did the taxi you took from Dalaran zone you in pvp area and parachuted you in? What?

Do you currently play the game? Then you know profession quests take one down to the sewers, to get ones oblivium forge one must go down to the sewers and do a few quests and finally for archeology the dig sites can and have been in pvp zones. That is at least 3 things that "force" someone into pvp areas.
Or are you going to continue to deny that?

[Mhorrg]

Do you currently play the game? Then you know profession quests take one down to the sewers, to get ones oblivium forge one must go down to the sewers and do a few quests and finally for archeology the dig sites can and have been in pvp zones. That is at least 3 things that "force" someone into pvp areas.
Or are you going to continue to deny that?

There is an option to become PvP immune in the sewers and there are also several times a day when guards make it safe for all. So that at least fixes that.

[Jewsco]

There is an option to become PvP immune in the sewers and there are also several times a day when guards make it safe for all. So that at least fixes that.

Somewhat but not completely as the guard costs money and has a time limit on its duration and the other safe way one can make the guards take a break for 50 slightless eyes so it can change to a free for all at anytime. Considering one might have chosen a pve realm and to add to it chosen to have pvp turned off yet it can still be forced upon them is wrong.

[Sansnom]

Wait what? You aren't forced to enter those areas lol.
The disconnect that you are missing is that your complaint is based on a falsehood.
Character progression and questing do not take place in these areas, and if they do, pvp is not forced until its a world quest at 110.

I don't think the real argument is "forced in to PvP", but rather putting PvE objectives in PvP areas. I have not done any world quest so I cannot comment on that. But I have notice archaeology dig site in PvP area. I was warned I was entering a PvP area so I avoided it. I had a choice to enter or not, as I am on a PvE server for a specific reason, I chose not to. Sure, I missed out on that dig site and go somewhere else. Not a real big lost.

But, the main question I have is putting a principally a PvE objective into a PvP area. This I do not understand.

Either Blizzard wants to encourage more PvP, which is a silly notion since a lot of people play on a PvE to not PvP. The should have realize this from the numerous PvP issues in the past. Such as the zombie invasion, bloody coin farming in TI, the BG requirements for the MoP legendary cloak.

Or their various design teams do not talk to each other and therefore both teams put their objectives into same location without knowledge of the other.

Either way, both of these shows a complete lack of understanding and learning from past mistakes.

[Mhorrg]

Somewhat but not completely as the guard costs money and has a time limit on its duration and the other safe way one can make the guards take a break for 50 slightless eyes so it can change to a free for all at anytime. Considering one might have chosen a pve realm and to add to it chosen to have pvp turned off yet it can still be forced upon them is wrong.

It costs less money than you get from a single grey trash drop, it doesn't really count.

And it's not wrong, it's part of the game. Every expansion has had unavoidable PvP content if you want to experience the whole expansion. For several expansions the best material farming zones were PvP flagging zones.

There is no such thing as a no PvP realm in WoW. There is FFA PvP realms and limited PvP realms.

Not to mention it's not like people on PvE realms are chomping at the bit to PvP. I tend to flag on purpose for fun on my PvE realm and I walk by enemy players all day who never bother to take a shot at me, even in groups. It's not like you're going to get instant ganked just because you're flagged.

[Deleted]

"Character progression and questing do not take place in these areas"

But thats actually not true :P If you hate PvP and you love PvE... You are missing out on alot of artifact power, wich IS NEEDED for Character progression Im talking about world quests. But i dont mind doing these myself, but you kinda are forced if you don't want to fall behind :P free AP atm is VERY important.

Run a mythic or w/e in the same time instead of doing pvp you dislike for a paltry 300 AP. You'll likely get comparable AP/h with a chance of drops and/or legendaries.

[GodEmperor]

Holy crap the PvE people whine even more than rets. I bet you're also the kind of person that takes it to the street to protest over every little thing that doesn't go your way.

Meanwhile, PvPers get 5 AP from a skirmish win and not even all time and are forced to do World Quests and Mythic dungeons to get AP, Relics and Gear.

[Raelbo]

What annoyed me was when I was levelling up in Stormheim, about level 106, there was an archaeology digsite that I went to clear. Turns out it was a PvP area and I got ganked by a pair of brave level 110 alliance demon hunters while trying to collect a few artifact fragments. I ended up having to corpserun twice because of course these valorous douches just had to corpse camp me.

It annoyed me intensely because one of the things about archeaology is that you kind of have to clear the site for a new one to spawn, so I thought I was going to have to face the ganking in order to do so. As it turns out, it seems the archeaology spots randomised after a server reset, and also when I did go back to the same place a few days later, it wasn't PvP flagged anymore.

Personally I don't see any value in setting up a situation on a PVE server where some random person just levelling up needs to be ganked multiple times in order to make a fun PvP experience for some teenaged douche. I have absolutely no problem with people who want to engage in WPvP doing so, but it is frustrating to have it forced on you when you signed up for essentially a different game.

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Holy crap the PvE people whine even more than rets. I bet you're also the kind of person that takes it to the street to protest over every little thing that doesn't go your way.

How would you like it if when you queued for say, a random BG, you got ported instead into LFR? (and no get out of jail free cards, if you don't complete it, you get a deserter debuff and can't queue for any content for an hour).

[Lime]

Do you currently play the game? Then you know profession quests take one down to the sewers, to get ones oblivium forge one must go down to the sewers and do a few quests and finally for archeology the dig sites can and have been in pvp zones. That is at least 3 things that "force" someone into pvp areas.
Or are you going to continue to deny that?

I disagree with this.

Underbelly - It's like 5 gold for 5 minutes of PvP immunity. Nobody in Legion should be struggling with 5 gold. That's like struggling to use flightpaths. Five minutes is also more than enough time to accomplish any PvE objective you have which takes place down there. The only issue with the Underbelly that I could acknowledge was that personal guards were bugged and would randomly despawned.

Archaeology - Not once have I had a this profession force me into PvP. From what I've seen, there are always PvE digsites to chose from. PvP certainly is not forced if there's a PvE alternative which accomplishes the same thing.

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How would you like it if when you queued for say, a random BG, you got ported instead into LFR? (and no get out of jail free cards, if you don't complete it, you get a deserter debuff and can't queue for any content for an hour).

While I disagree with what the person you quoted posted, I'd say that's not a good comparison. It's not like that if someone fights you out in the world, if your run, you get a debuff that doesn't allow you to queue for dungeons.

[bubbadubba]

I am not on a PVP server, yet I am forced to enter unknown PVP areas to quest. It feels like a platter that has been laid out for awaiting wolves.

Is the only option to avoid quests and character advancement altogether, or just get frustratingly ganked over and over until I finish what was designed to benefit those people who should have joined a pvp server? I chose to NOT PVP, so I joined a NON PVP server!

I don't want to PVP, what disconnect am I missing here?

I have not seen one enemy player in a pvp quest zone. I play on a PVE server and the only PVP I have seen is when I did a Wardens quest and joined a group on a pvp server, we had some splash aoe from some alliance.

[Jewsco]

The problem I see here:

You could easily argue for having sharding between 100-109 and then 110 alone. Obviously 110 players have different priorities so it wouldn't hurt to keep them separate.

Thing is, you complain about things "forced" on you (very abusive btw to use this word people who have actually been forced in life would laugh in your face but anyway). Let me ask you: At 106 you had nothing better to do than finish your archaeology? Like you couldnt switch area for 10 min or go quest next door and come back or anything? No. You were DETERMINED to do your archaeology right there and then. You chose to tunnel vision and paid the price. Then you probably realized that your dedicated pve server decided to take a pvp break. Ground breaking? Not really.

Technically speaking pvpers are being forced to do pve at least until they reach a good rating (might take a few days/weeks). Hell Im even being obliged to maintain an offspec to pve because my main spec is not very useful for pve. And yet somehow pvpers don't complain all day long about the terrible fate that awaited them in legion to have to quest and pve to maintain an artifact because doing so by BGs rewards 6AP tokens.

So yeah I can't feel for you regardless how many times you use the word "forced". You could leave the area go back in 5 min and no DH would be there because noone has time for needless gankings these days.

P.S. You may not like my reply but since blizzard won't change the maps for you you might as well take some advice how to skip unpleasantries.

What you have described is being forced to play the game differently than that person wanted to. Can't have it both ways and complain pvpers are forced to pve but disregard that pvers are forced to pvp. It is bad for both can we agree on that? And both are being forced to play a way neither wants to get it now?

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Obliterum is not important for your character progression so you are NOT "forced" to do it.

You can enter sewers with bodyguard that doesn't go away now so your argument is getting old and obsolete like the rest of your whines.

Archaeology is not important for your character progression so you are NOT forced to di it.

So yes noone is "forcing" you to do anything. In fact noone even "forces" you to play the game. You are in charge of what you do and what happens to you in game. You find it easier to complain in forum than to make a 5 man and go do your quests. Then you blame someone who points out that you can survive life and the game without obliterum. I don't bother with obliterum because I cba pay 50k for bracers that cost maybe 1k each and I play the game just fine. I just don't make income from obliterum. Nothing game breaking but I don't go about whining "omg obliterum costs so much blizzard shoves making gold down my throat".

I hope you can see the difference there.

Does it not help make ones gear 850? I would say that something that upgrades my gear important right?

Yes archeology isn't mandatory but if one is an achievement hunter, wants the mounts and/or pets from it again it is forced. If it takes away from the way someone wants to play the game that is forcing them to do it another way what can't you grasp here?

[GodEmperor]

How would you like it if when you queued for say, a random BG, you got ported instead into LFR? (and no get out of jail free cards, if you don't complete it, you get a deserter debuff and can't queue for any content for an hour).

Literally nothing like each other. You're doing PvP which you don't like but gives you rewards you need. We PvPers are doing PvE which we don't like(well most of us) to get rewards that we need for PvP. Only difference is we're doing tenfold the stuff we don't like to get the rewards and yet you don't see me whining about it.

[Raelbo]

The problem I see here:

Yeah, I think you need to remove those dark glasses because you're not seeing very clearly.

Thing is, you complain about things "forced" on you (very abusive btw to use this word people who have actually been forced in life would laugh in your face but anyway).

Here's a thought: Let's forget about actually debating the point and rather focus on semantics. Yeah, that's the best way. Fuck trying to actually figure out the point of what is being conveyed....

Let me ask you: At 106 you had nothing better to do than finish your archaeology? Like you couldnt switch area for 10 min or go quest next door and come back or anything? No. You were DETERMINED to do your archaeology right there and then. You chose to tunnel vision and paid the price. Then you probably realized that your dedicated pve server decided to take a pvp break. Ground breaking? Not really.

Great, now you've gone and embellished my experience with a bunch of made up fiction. No that is not what happened, nor how it played out. Fair enough, I didn't spell out all the details, but it's really awesome that you chose to fill in the blanks in such a way as to make me look like a twat.

What actually happened is I entered the area because I was nearby and it was marked as an archaeology digsite. I had no idea what I was walking into. As I enter the area a warning pops up that I have entered a PVP area. And while I am trying to figure out what the fuck is going on, I get pounced on the pair of 110 heroes. Of course I stand no chance, and by trying to run away, I end up going a bit deeper into the area. After I died, I had to ghost run back to corpse. Guess what, the two heroes were waiting there and destroyed me again. But at least I got a bit closer to leaving the area. So I had to corpserun again.

I did not get to obtain my archaeology fragments. I did not tunnel vision. I did switch to another area. The only thing you got right was that I paid the price.

Was it the end of the world? No. Will I get over it? Sure. But what you cannot refute is that, in the context of having fun while playing the game, it was a negative experience. And for what? So that some kids could get a kick out of ganking someone who stood no chance? Where is the value in that? That is the point I am making.

BTW: You're 100% right. I wasn't forced to do anything. I could've chosen accept a spirit res complete with significant repair bill and the 10 minute debuff, which again, I could have chosen to just take a ten minute break. Or you know, I could even just choose not to play this game at all. *gasp*.

Technically speaking pvpers are being forced to do pve at least until they reach a good rating (might take a few days/weeks). Hell Im even being obliged to maintain an offspec to pve because my main spec is not very useful for pve. And yet somehow pvpers don't complain all day long about the terrible fate that awaited them in legion to have to quest and pve to maintain an artifact because doing so by BGs rewards 6AP tokens.

Please explain how setting up lowbies to get ambushed in the way I was helps you out? All I am getting from this is "well we have to suffer too, so suck it up".

So yeah I can't feel for you regardless how many times you use the word "forced".

I used it once, and in a context very different from what you're trying to make out. So sod off.

You could leave the area go back in 5 min and no DH would be there because noone has time for needless gankings these days.

I did leave the area. No, I don't think the DH would have been gone when I got back. I think they were purposely camping out there counting on people like me to accidentally wander into the area so that they could have a good laugh while kicking our asses.

P.S. You may not like my reply but since blizzard won't change the maps for you you might as well take some advice how to skip unpleasantries.

I don't like your reply because you're acting like a jerk. You didn't bother to read my story properly, you made a bunch of assumptions about the situation all of which were way off base, you're victim blaming, and you have zero empathy. And I suspect you don't like my reply, because bullies rarely like it when people call them out for their bullshit.

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Underbelly - It's like 5 gold for 5 minutes of PvP immunity. Nobody in Legion should be struggling with 5 gold. That's like struggling to use flightpaths. Five minutes is also more than enough time to accomplish any PvE objective you have which takes place down there. The only issue with the Underbelly that I could acknowledge was that personal guards were bugged and would randomly despawned.

Once you figure out how it all works, sure, it's fine. But the first time I went down there, just to check out the BMAH, it was rather an annoyance because I had no idea what was going on or how to get around it. Basically I went into the sewers, and started searching for Madam Goya. Next thing I see a bunch of people fighting some elite monster, so I join in. Then BAM, I am dead. So I run back down, res, move away from the clearly deadly mob, and BAM dead again. This time I realise I was killed by another player. Then I have to try and figure how to get out of there because each time I res, I get a few steps and again, BAM, ganked. I had no idea that the place was a pvp zone, and I had no idea I could even get around it.

It was only when I started grumbling about it in guild chat that someone explained the whole thing with the guards. I think it could have been a whole lot better handled by something like having a questgiver standing at the entrance the first time you go down there who tells you to go speak with the guard captain to get a personal guard instead of expecting people to just figure it out for themselves while getting ganked by overenthusiastic kids whose idea of awesome PvP is picking on the level 100 with your level 110.

Archaeology - Not once have I had a this profession force me into PvP. From what I've seen, there are always PvE digsites to chose from. PvP certainly is not forced if there's a PvE alternative which accomplishes the same thing.

In my case I feel like I was forced because I entered the site unaware of the fact that I was about to be flagged and that once again, there were eager 110 PvPers who were lying in wait. Forced is probably not the right word, more like ambushed.

While I disagree with what the person you quoted posted, I'd say that's not a good comparison. It's not like that if someone fights you out in the world, if your run, you get a debuff that doesn't allow you to queue for dungeons.

In my case I was pretty much derailed from progressing through the zone for about 10 minutes. I got ganked, had to corpserun (or take the 10 min debuff which basically makes you impotent). Then I got corpse camped. And this happened when my expectation was just to do a little bit of chilled archeaology. That was the point of the comparison.

[Bathory]

I am not on a PVP server, yet I am forced to enter unknown PVP areas to quest. It feels like a platter that has been laid out for awaiting wolves.

Is the only option to avoid quests and character advancement altogether, or just get frustratingly ganked over and over until I finish what was designed to benefit those people who should have joined a pvp server? I chose to NOT PVP, so I joined a NON PVP server!

I don't want to PVP, what disconnect am I missing here?

The world quests with the swords crossed? Yeah, those are for pvpers. Don't do those. If you do them, that's your fault. There are PLENTY of other ways to get AP. Again, the WC with the swords crossed are for PVPers. Do not walk into a PVP zone and then complain pvp happened. That's like walking into a steakhouse and getitng upset there are no vegan options.

You're allowed to not like pvp, that's fine. But when you complain about pvp happening, in one of the very few designated pvp areas, you sound like one who has must be coddled at all times. And please drop the "forced". The way WC are setup, you get 100% AP from the playstyle of your choosing. The rewards are high because that's how strict pvpers acquire their AP. Just like how you don't like pvp, other people don't enjoy pve.

What you want (again, not forced) is additional AP ON TOP of what you already acquired from your desired playstyle. Which can only happen if you venture into a different playstyle. One you might not like. So the CHOICE is up to you whether or not the AP.