Still early, but no buffs for elemental in 7.1?

[Nyel]

Wut? What exactly are Stormkeeper and Gust of Wind giving us when we're talking about damage while moving?

Fire Elemental? So we take a 5 minute CD as an ability for movement... or (as mentioned above) Maelstrom spenders for movement phases... ah right. How do you generate Maelstrom while moving? Sure you can save your Maelstrom for one ES when you know you need to move but c'mon you can't even say that this would be "movement damage" because you can use it once and that's it. If you need to move for 5, 6, 10 seconds there's nothing left besides the FS spam someone mentioned earlier.

I know this is a PvE related forum but if I may just put one thing out there. Elemental shaman are actually only a few tweaks away from being really good in 3v3 arena. Control + burst window comps like warrior/ele/x and especially rogue/ele/x will be exceptionally good if big damage buffs come in for elemental because Ice Fury and Fulmination burst with cds is really really strong. If they made a change where overload affected all of our damaging abilities would this be too good?

You can't even use Fulmination (=Earthshock?) and the Icefury-Stacks at once because you're lacking Maelstrom (FS without MS are even with the buff quite weak). Or am I misunderstanding something?

[Ollz113]

Wut? What exactly are Stormkeeper and Gust of Wind giving us when we're talking about damage while moving?

Fire Elemental? So we take a 5 minute CD as an ability for movement... or (as mentioned above) Maelstrom spenders for movement phases... ah right. How do you generate Maelstrom while moving? Sure you can save your Maelstrom for one ES when you know you need to move but c'mon you can't even say that this would be "movement damage" because you can use it once and that's it. If you need to move for 5, 6, 10 seconds there's nothing left besides the FS spam someone mentioned earlier.



You can't even use Fulmination (=Earthshock?) and the Icefury-Stacks at once because you're lacking Maelstrom (FS without MS are even with the buff quite weak). Or am I misunderstanding something?

(I play aftershock in PvP) I tend to wait for a LS proc, then fulminate (refunding 25 Maelstrom), LB (refunding 14 maelstrom) add to this your passive regeneration from fire and ice and totem mastery gives you ~50 maelstrom for 2 (sometimes 3) full power FS which hits pretty decent.

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(I play aftershock in PvP) I tend to wait for a LS proc, then fulminate (refunding 25 Maelstrom), LB (refunding 14 maelstrom) add to this your passive regeneration from fire and ice and totem mastery gives you ~50 maelstrom for 2 (sometimes 3) full power FS which hits pretty decent.

The thing that makes this viable from what I am finding from wargames at the moment is the fact that the only spell you actually have to cast here is icefury (making ele a better partner for a rogue than moonkins/destro/demo for example as these classes can be locked out pretty easy on their main burst)

[Omnious]

So to clarify, does anyone know if they are adding a cooldown to flame shock again, or is that just the low level, Rank 1 version? That would be a pretty big nerf if the former...

No I highly doubt it, the version of FS with a cool down is for restoration shaman and the 6 second CD is already live in game now.

[Keiyra]

Yes, literally zero damage compared to other classes that can deliver damage during mobility phases. All 3 Maelstrom spenders are instant? You need Maelstrom to cast them, right? Can you produce Maelstrom while running? No (besides Lava Surge procs). So Lava Surge is left, a totally random mechanic for an instant cast during mobility - sounds right. No, it doesn't. And sure we can spam Flame Shock, that's what I call "damage".

And you're right, Stellar Flare has a cast time but a duration of 24 seconds so you can easily cast it before you need to move around.

So as a Shaman you have:

- Flame Shock spam (+ its DoT)
- Lava Surge procs
- Maybe Icefury but most likely you don't use this talent

As Moonkin you have:

- Moonfire / Sunfire / (Stellar Flare if taken)
- Starsurge
- Starfall
- Chance of getting an instant cast when being attacked
- Ressource generation during movement phases

Boomkin Resource generation while moving is rather low (3 AP per dot cast, 2 AP per 2.5 secs with Blessing of Anshe if talented or 10% chance per dot tick for 5 AP if talented into SS) So really, once you blow your 2 starsurges/1 starfall (at most), you don't really generate much AP during the average periods of movement in a raid to cast them again until you can stand still. Much like only really getting off 1 Earth shock while moving and then not getting enough for another. Likely your Lava surge procs and overloads and totem mastery if talented generate similar amounts of resource over the average raid boss fight.

OKF doesn't proc of most raid boss abilities, so that's a rare event to consider.

Saying you can cast stellar flare before movement and then counting it as a damage DURING movement ability is asinine. You may as well say you can cast Lightning Bolt before movement and call it a dot that did all its damage upfront <eyeroll>

Just because you don't LIKE the amount of damage or number of damage sources you have while moving, doesn't mean they don't exists. You literally, do not understand how to use the word literally.

You could've discussed eles comparative lack of damage while moving but instead opted for gross obtuseness and hyperbolic whining.

[Merie]

Blizzard's lack of tuning is frustrating. And if everyone was super close and it w as just a question of narrowing everyone down to a single percent then sure, wait until raids. But good god man some specs are so blatantly strictly inferior or superior to others right now. Right now Bliz is like "Well, it's just dungeons". But specs like Unholy have amazing sustained and burst dps as surely as they have amazing single target and aoe target dps, rendering specs like Retribution basically pointless. DH's are even further off, sporting damage so great that even tanks are outpacing some dps specs like Frost.

[Tavin]

Flame shock, lava surge procs, icefury, earth shock, stormkeeper, totems etc. There are plenty of things that we can use while moving.
Our single target is kinda weak, our burst is still great. And definitely no, we are not the worst damage dealer. People who are saying we're bottom on the sim havent even looked at any, as they don't factor in movement properly. If we can stand still, we will do decent damage. However that doesn't happen all that often in raids.

Remove the gcd of stormkeeper, give some buff to lightning bolt and/or mobility for it. Maybe a tiny buff to flame shock/lava burst

[Nyel]

Boomkin Resource generation while moving is rather low (3 AP per dot cast, 2 AP per 2.5 secs with Blessing of Anshe if talented or 10% chance per dot tick for 5 AP if talented into SS) So really, once you blow your 2 starsurges/1 starfall (at most), you don't really generate much AP during the average periods of movement in a raid to cast them again until you can stand still. Much like only really getting off 1 Earth shock while moving and then not getting enough for another. Likely your Lava surge procs and overloads and totem mastery if talented generate similar amounts of resource over the average raid boss fight.

OKF doesn't proc of most raid boss abilities, so that's a rare event to consider.

Saying you can cast stellar flare before movement and then counting it as a damage DURING movement ability is asinine. You may as well say you can cast Lightning Bolt before movement and call it a dot that did all its damage upfront <eyeroll>

Just because you don't LIKE the amount of damage or number of damage sources you have while moving, doesn't mean they don't exists. You literally, do not understand how to use the word literally.

You could've discussed eles comparative lack of damage while moving but instead opted for gross obtuseness and hyperbolic whining.

So what is better, rather low or non existant? I prefer rather low. And Moonfire / Sunfire (which you can spam while moving) are generating Astral Power as well - something Ele Shamans don't have. They have their Lava Surge procs for Maelstrom generation while moving, that's it (maybe you've got Totem Mastery and generate Maelstrom by that but it's still less than what Moonkins can generate during movement).

Yes, it's rare but it could happen - but I agree, we shouldn't count that unless in heave add fights.

Why is it asinine? This is exactly what damage while moving is about. We've got the Flame Shock DoT as damage while moving, they've got 2 or 3 different DoTs - what's asinine about a DoT that causes damage during movement? You seem to misunderstand what's the real issue with Ele Shamans during movement phases.

I know how to use the world "literally", as stated above. It's called Hyperbole.

Are we really discussing Ele Shaman's damage during movement? Seriously? It's not that I don't like it, it simply is pretty horrible. That's it.

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There are plenty of things that we can use while moving.

Plenty of things still doesn't imply that it's relevant when it comes to DPS.

[Aurora]

Blizzard's lack of tuning is frustrating. And if everyone was super close and it w as just a question of narrowing everyone down to a single percent then sure, wait until raids. But good god man some specs are so blatantly strictly inferior or superior to others right now. Right now Bliz is like "Well, it's just dungeons". But specs like Unholy have amazing sustained and burst dps as surely as they have amazing single target and aoe target dps, rendering specs like Retribution basically pointless. DH's are even further off, sporting damage so great that even tanks are outpacing some dps specs like Frost.

The usual condescension from them implying people can't distinguish between trash and short bosses as if we don't have access to simulations or training dummies. I'm not sure what happened in the last couple of years since WoD kept damage balance as narrow as its ever been, this so far has been a return to the old days of certain specs being accepted as non-viable for cutting edge content.

[Zeek Daniels]

So far im seeing alot of my damage being tied to CD's. Which means if i have to move during a CD my damage drops. If im not using Stormkeeper, Heroism, or Elemental Mastery i do way less dmg than classes i see in mythics. If theres a ton of movement in raids we will have to time our cd's for non movement parts and that means waiting while things are off cd which isnt good for total dmg either.

[Regalbeast]

What kind of DPS are you Ele's able to pull on 1) trash mobs and 2) boss fights?

[Riistov]

Atm elemental is the worst DPS spec in Wow. Overall we need huge changes.

It's really not. The spec is very dependent on gear, but once you get past 840 it gets a LOT better. I am currently able to hold my own against other classes in Mythic dungeons.

[Aurora]

It's really not. The spec is very dependent on gear, but once you get past 840 it gets a LOT better. I am currently able to hold my own against other classes in Mythic dungeons.

Short boss fights theoretically favour ele, if the spec was balanced you should be dominating mythics with a burst build.

[Antilurker77]

I know how to use the world "literally", as stated above. It's called Hyperbole.

Stop it. Your hyperbolic posting isn't adding anything constructive. It's shitposting.

[Zeek Daniels]

What kind of DPS are you Ele's able to pull on 1) trash mobs and 2) boss fights?

In a 4 minute time span on a raiding dummy i do 45 million damage.

[Nyel]

Stop it. Your hyperbolic posting isn't adding anything constructive. It's shitposting.

It's a description of the current situation. If we're talking about "damage while moving" and somebody brings up Gust of Wind or Stormkeeper I just can laugh because that's nothing to do with what we were discussing. If you think Ele Shaman damage while movement is fine: okay. It's still not true, as I explained the page before with the Moonkin-example (and Moonkin's don't even have the best damage while moving).

Let me summarize it for you:

Moonkin:

- Ressource generation while moving
- Two (three) DoTs on the target while moving
- Spenders are instant and don't cost the full ressource bar (with a full ressource bar you can cast 2 instant skills that outdo the damage of one 100 MS Earthshock)
- If skilled: skill with 45 sec CD for two instant casts

Elemental:

- No ressource generation while moving
- Flame Shock / Earth Shock / Frost Shock as damage sources while moving (all of them pretty bad especially when at least 2 of them consume ressources)
- Random proc for instant nukes
- Icefury as a mobility talent that's bound to Maelstrom

You see the differences between both classes? No? Figure it out by trying both classes all by yourself. It makes a difference if you have 3 DoTs going and generate ressources vs. 1 DoT going and no ressource generation.

If you need to move for some seconds your entire damage as Elemental Shaman is f*cked up. That's an important factor when it comes to balancing for raids because we won't have any Patchwerk fight where we can stand still for 5 minutes and burst like there's nothing else.

[TrumpIsPresident]

You see the differences between both classes?

I'll add on another small slice of differences.

Thunderstorm is supposed to be a defensive -mostly- escape mechanic right?

First, thunderstorm never knocks back the full 10 yards unless the target is traveling down a decline. If the terrain is flat, if there's an incline, if theres a fucking pebble in their path, or if tstorm just outright fails (which it does 90% of the time) there is 0 to 5 yards of knockback.

But for the sake of argument lets say you get the full 10 yards every time plus the full 5 seconds of 40% slow (maximum).

Now what? What fucking good does that do you?

At that point you're still in range of every single spell, every single ranged attack (and some of the "ranged" melee ones), every single ranged stun, every single movement ability other specs have (charge, death grip, fel rush, et).

Ok so lets say you combine tstorm + ghost wolf, minding that you have to spend 1 gcd to do this. Guess what? You're still in range of everything listed above.

Ok so lets say you're a fkin pro and drop a lit surge totem (and you get the full duration which you nearly never will) then knock them back into it then ghost wolf out, with all the GCDs that takes. Guess what? When the recover from the stun you're STILL in fucking range of everything listed above.

So what honestly is the fucking point of even using these spells as escape mechanics?

None.

So then that effectively leaves Ele without any escape.

#eleisdogshit
#blizzdevsareassclowns

[Riistov]

Short boss fights theoretically favour ele, if the spec was balanced you should be dominating mythics with a burst build.

They do, the problem though is that so much of our dps is tied up in cooldowns that it sinks like a rock as soon as they are over. Ele has its problems (many of which can be fixed with a tuning pass, others not so much), but to say that Ele is the worst dps spec in the game right now is false.

[prinnybomb167]

They do, the problem though is that so much of our dps is tied up in cooldowns that it sinks like a rock as soon as they are over. Ele has its problems (many of which can be fixed with a tuning pass, others not so much), but to say that Ele is the worst dps spec in the game right now is false.

I would say that it is definitely up there. I am honestly trying to enjoy the class but I sadly come to realize I just hate the way it is designed around these cooldowns. This spec has not changed since Wrath and it desperately needs a revamp, (in my eyes). So ele can do pretty well blowing its load on a short boss fight, which will favor these cds having really good up time. The following pulls my damage is practically lower than the tanks, and many times (at ilvl 842) lower without cds and with horrific RNG, (the variance of damage I can see hitting a dummy for 2 minutes is quite staggering, like 50k +/-). People talking about how icefury is a movement ability is just complete horseshit, (not accusing you by any means), unless you memorize that fight, not accounting for being targeted by any specific mechanic etc..., and that is hoping it coincides with its 30 sec cd, not to mention using it properly with all of our other low timed buffs it is easy to have things roll off or not use things right when they come off cd (to maximize damage).

At the end of the day, obviously it is personal, but i just cannot stand the spec anymore.

[Eej]

Blizzard's lack of tuning is frustrating. And if everyone was super close and it w as just a question of narrowing everyone down to a single percent then sure, wait until raids. But good god man some specs are so blatantly strictly inferior or superior to others right now. Right now Bliz is like "Well, it's just dungeons". But specs like Unholy have amazing sustained and burst dps as surely as they have amazing single target and aoe target dps, rendering specs like Retribution basically pointless. DH's are even further off, sporting damage so great that even tanks are outpacing some dps specs like Frost.

First off, the sims are nowhere close to being optimized so you'll see classes jumping up and down the sims as they are being updated.

Second of all they're going to do a tuning hotfix right before mythic raids open, so if you want to provide data then go do Heroic and DPS as hard as you can.

[Azelas]

They do, the problem though is that so much of our dps is tied up in cooldowns that it sinks like a rock as soon as they are over. Ele has its problems (many of which can be fixed with a tuning pass, others not so much), but to say that Ele is the worst dps spec in the game right now is false.

honestly I'd say it's up there with like... Frost DKs. I'm not as upset as other folks because I main Resto, and it was always my choice. But I wanted Elemental to be my dps choice for Shaman and it's becoming REALLY hard at the moment. It's just... frustrating.

It's not only the fact that the dps is comparatively low, it's just that the build is honestly frustrating to play as. It's basically a press all buttons when my CDs are up, then do nothing for the next 5 minutes. Watch my lightning bolts do 1k damage or something, and it's overload do 700. It just FEELS bad playing it tbh.