Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[Xanatu]

Thanks for the logs, my haste is quite shit so I guess that's why it feels extra clunky right now. Anyways I'll have to try GS out in some Mythics.

Yeah most outlaw rogues have horrible haste; it's our worst stat and stays that way. It doesn't feel great but the harder hitting is actually better than more actions.

[Won7on]

3. sim yourself again i guarantee you haste wont be your best stat, it's only your best stat till you get like 10-15% of it, even then versa is better, just stack versa and try to get haste/crit more or less equal

I did, actually, and it still was, though not by a lot.

[TheRogue]

I did, actually, and it still was, though not by a lot.

wow you have really nicely itemised gear, mine is like:
Vers 7.5
Crit 6.8
Mastery 4.5
Haste 4.2

[Won7on]

wow you have really nicely itemised gear, mine is like:
Vers 7.5
Crit 6.8
Mastery 4.5
Haste 4.2

The weird thing is I barely have any Vers, like 2k. By far the least of any of the stats. And everyone else keeps saying Vers is their top stat. Are other Rogues, like, doing the sims differently or something? I have 0002211 talent setup, as standard, and artifact tree is completely normal too. Trinkets are a Crit stat stick and a Haste stat stick.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...anker/advanced

[Deleted]

There is no bad stat for outlaw, all stats are pretty equal, it's just sims will tell you to go for what you have the least of to balance it out. In general versatility is what you want to go for, but all the other stats are pretty close.

[shaunika123]

There is no bad stat for outlaw, all stats are pretty equal, it's just sims will tell you to go for what you have the least of to balance it out. In general versatility is what you want to go for, but all the other stats are pretty close.

mastery is pretty meh until you get the artifact points in it tbh

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The weird thing is I barely have any Vers, like 2k. By far the least of any of the stats. And everyone else keeps saying Vers is their top stat. Are other Rogues, like, doing the sims differently or something? I have 0002211 talent setup, as standard, and artifact tree is completely normal too. Trinkets are a Crit stat stick and a Haste stat stick.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...anker/advanced

yoU're not running alacrity

that makes haste infinitely better than anything else

[Won7on]

Kind of.
Use Ambush -> Ghostly > SS > PS = 6 CP -> rtb

if good buffs u can get a full cp RT from Mfd, then pop cds and enjoy.
If not you can instantly reroll with your mfd with 6 CP and not just 5 from your opener.

I actually do it the other way, MFD + RtB on pre-pull. Then I start with 1 CP, so Ambush --> Ghostly --> SS gives me 6, I either RT or re-roll, and then blow cooldowns (and still have a free Pistol Shot to start Curse with).

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mastery is pretty meh until you get the artifact points in it tbh

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yoU're not running alacrity

that makes haste infinitely better than anything else

I did the sims with Alacrity, I'm not an idiot. CB is obviously just for the dungeons I was just running.

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There is no bad stat for outlaw, all stats are pretty equal, it's just sims will tell you to go for what you have the least of to balance it out. In general versatility is what you want to go for, but all the other stats are pretty close.

But that's NOT what the sim is telling me, I have 2k Vers and 7k Haste, and it's telling me that Haste > Vers lol. Does anyone in this thread even read comments before replying?

[Sephiroso]

I actually do it the other way, MFD + RtB on pre-pull. Then I start with 1 CP, so Ambush --> Ghostly --> SS gives me 6, I either RT or re-roll, and then blow cooldowns (and still have a free Pistol Shot to start Curse with).

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I did the sims with Alacrity, I'm not an idiot. CB is obviously just for the dungeons I was just running.

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But that's NOT what the sim is telling me, I have 2k Vers and 7k Haste, and it's telling me that Haste > Vers lol. Does anyone in this thread even read comments before replying?

All stats being pretty much equal means, no matter what stats you get, your damage will go up about the same. You're the one who might not be reading comments?

[Deleted]

Won7on, you don't understand how simcraft works. I highly recommend reading some information here about how stat priorities are for outlaw currently. Also, if you want us to give you an answer for why haste still sims over versatility you would have to give us a lot more information such as what trinkets youre using, the type of fight, amounts of adds, etc. Don't expect good answers with half-assed questions.

[Notter]

in preparation for raid next week.
i'd like to know some things:

1. what is the best battle potions for outlaw? (i'm guessing old war?)
2. is there any fight where it's beneficial to change our talents?

[glowpipe]

So you are not supposed to SS at 5 cp for the last. Is it only me or is the 6cp talent useless ? i more or less ALWAYS end up having to RT on 5cp. Only time i manage to get 6 cp is if i fuck up.

[Deleted]

So you are not supposed to SS at 5 cp for the last. Is it only me or is the 6cp talent useless ? i more or less ALWAYS end up having to RT on 5cp. Only time i manage to get 6 cp is if i fuck up.

Sometimes GS is about to run out at 5 CP. Without Broadside > GS > 6CP gg

Use Pistolshot Procs at 5 Cp w/o Broadside, 6CP > gg

Still good.

You could argue that in certain situations Anticipation could be beneficial.

More Burst for Adds when pooling some CP's. However you will ALWAYS get off a 5CP finisher without the possibility to get off an even bigger RT with Deeper Stratagem talented.

Also, Sims underline value of Deeper Stratagem.

[Sephiroso]

Sometimes GS is about to run out at 5 CP. Without Broadside > GS > 6CP gg

Use Pistolshot Procs at 5 Cp w/o Broadside, 6CP > gg

Still good.

You could argue that in certain situations Anticipation could be beneficial.

More Burst for Adds when pooling some CP's. However you will ALWAYS get off a 5CP finisher without the possibility to get off an even bigger RT with Deeper Stratagem talented.

Also, Sims underline value of Deeper Stratagem.

Not to mention, even without the 6th cp, Deeper Stratagem boosts finisher dmg by 10% period.

[RobertoCarlos]

What talent set up you guys going for first raid night?

Personally I will be going

Quick Draw - Grappling hook - Deeper stratagem - Elusiveness - Dirty tricks - Alacrity - Marked for Death.

Ghostly strike sims as more dps but I'm more concerned about getting off more finishers and I feel the synergy with quick draw and deeper stratagem is too good. More finishers is just good for everything and even helps build Alacrity stacks faster. Level 75 row is pointless. The most difficult choice for me was the level 30 row. Acrobatic strikes seems better but Im wary I will be learning the fights and grapp hook is good for movement in general as well as a get out of jail card.

[Moritsume]

Hey guys, can someone shed more light on the relic spreadsheet floating around? I know I saw a quote from fierydemise saying focus more on good traits not so much relic ilvl, but how long do you ignore ilvl boosts before you take a lesser trait?

For instance right now I have a 830 fatebringer relic, or a 845 fortune strikes relic (btw, who thought it was a good idea to have a trait called 'fortune strikes' and another called 'fortune's strike'?) is that too small a boost to be worth switching?

[ymirsson]

the right traits are worth more then 45 ilvls.
you read that right.
45 ilvl difference do not make the cut. take the run though relics.

[Moritsume]

the right traits are worth more then 45 ilvls.
you read that right.
45 ilvl difference do not make the cut. take the run though relics.

Well that's the other thing, Fatebringer is ranked higher than Fate's Thirst :O

[glowpipe]

After reading this thread lately, i have been starting to question my own ability a lot. People go on saying how they do on avarage 300k ez np with single rolls and whatnot.

From my own experience i am no where near that. On some fights i might go as low as 160k dps. Like today on the first boss in vault of the warden heroic. full group so no dmg buff. I always reroll a single buff once in dungeons except if i get grand melee, then i reroll til its gone. On this boss today i got grand melee twice in a row, then single true bearing and then broad+grand melee. Stuck with that and ended up at 170k on that boss. Other bosses in there i was avaraging 240k.

This is with 847 ilvl and a decent group killing stuff in about 40-60 sec.

If i get 6 buffs at start with both cd's up i can go as high as 600k, but that happens like once in a weeks reset.

After what ive been reading on this forum i apparently suck giant balls of suckage.

What i am doing is following the regular rotation. Always aiming for 2+ but never rerolling more than once on a single buff more if i get grand melee. I never waste cp by using free pistol shot at 5+ cp. Never ss at 5+ cp. i always use marked for death on the lowest possible mob in trash and i never use it at more than 1 cp. I use it for RT on trash. Reroll on bosses. I tend to wait for a decent buff before popping cotdb+adren and using it on RT and not rerolls.

My relics suck i think. got 1 black powder. 2 blade dance. 845, 850, 850 ilvl. I heard that ilvl was king.
The path i followed is the one on icy-veins and wowhead and my weapon is lvl 19 so my last point is 1 in gunslinger. (spent some points in assassin aswell)

According to a bunch, like 87% on this forum i must suck, they keep telling me that i should be pulling 300k avarage and never below 220k dps. Which i tend to do with insane bad rang. My worst i was at 149k Spent the entire fight rerolling single buffs, which i have now stopped doing.

So what am i doing wrong ?

[Sephiroso]

After reading this thread lately, i have been starting to question my own ability a lot. People go on saying how they do on avarage 300k ez np with single rolls and whatnot.

From my own experience i am no where near that. On some fights i might go as low as 160k dps. Like today on the first boss in vault of the warden heroic. full group so no dmg buff. I always reroll a single buff once in dungeons except if i get grand melee, then i reroll til its gone. On this boss today i got grand melee twice in a row, then single true bearing and then broad+grand melee. Stuck with that and ended up at 170k on that boss. Other bosses in there i was avaraging 240k.

This is with 847 ilvl and a decent group killing stuff in about 40-60 sec.

If i get 6 buffs at start with both cd's up i can go as high as 600k, but that happens like once in a weeks reset.

After what ive been reading on this forum i apparently suck giant balls of suckage.

What i am doing is following the regular rotation. Always aiming for 2+ but never rerolling more than once on a single buff more if i get grand melee. I never waste cp by using free pistol shot at 5+ cp. Never ss at 5+ cp. i always use marked for death on the lowest possible mob in trash and i never use it at more than 1 cp. I use it for RT on trash. Reroll on bosses. I tend to wait for a decent buff before popping cotdb+adren and using it on RT and not rerolls.

My relics suck i think. got 1 black powder. 2 blade dance. 845, 850, 850 ilvl. I heard that ilvl was king.
The path i followed is the one on icy-veins and wowhead and my weapon is lvl 19 so my last point is 1 in gunslinger. (spent some points in assassin aswell)

According to a bunch, like 87% on this forum i must suck, they keep telling me that i should be pulling 300k avarage and never below 220k dps. Which i tend to do with insane bad rang. My worst i was at 149k Spent the entire fight rerolling single buffs, which i have now stopped doing.

So what am i doing wrong ?

In heroic dungeons, I honestly throw the 2+ rule out the window completely. The only time i'll reroll on boss is in mythic dungeon and if there's an add break in the fight and i got a shit single roll so i'll mfd add, roll, kill, mfd, roll, kill, etc, but I don't even do that all the time.

You're not wasting a cp by using free pistol shot at 5cp as long as you don't have broadsides. So you definitely want to use free pistol shot for your 6th cp in that case. You got it right that you don't want to use ss at 5+(i also dont use ss at 4 when i have broadsides except for very rare times when i can't use a free pistol or gs needs refreshing at that point).

I didn't see you mention GS(ghostly strike) at all so i'm guessing you're not specced into it, which makes sense now that i think about it why you said you dont use free proc at 5+. GS > quick draw for bosses unless its an aoe boss fight.

Don't wait for a decent buff before you pop cds. Just start fight stealthed, ambush(2)>ss(4-5)>if 4, free ps(5)> gs(6) > RtB....if 5, gs(6)>RtB

If you're fine with that first roll, racials>AR>Cotdb, if not consider MfD another roll, then cds or just use cds anyway and hold MfD for adds soon if there will be.

[Deleted]

My relics suck i think. got 1 black powder. 2 blade dance. 845, 850, 850 ilvl. I heard that ilvl was king.

Indeed they do. That combination is a no go. if you have to, lower the level and get Fatebringer or Fate's Thrist.