Would you appreciate an expansion with no raids?

[Deleted]

The game has a major issue to address before any real content discussions can be made. It is something that plagues all MMOs. The issue is around the balance between full-time-players and the weekend-warriors.

Yes but there is an even bigger elephant in the room, it is the huge amount of people that refuse to group at any level, and that only want to do solo or queuable content in a MMORPG, to the point that i am totally sure the new legendaries are in the game for a main purpose, so that people are bribed to go into the world, and at least to participate in world content, best case scenario for blizzard, they might even consider grouping with other players for raiding or dungeoning beyond the queuable content.

[Sencha]

So basically GW2. Get boring pretty fast.

[anaxie]

i wish new expansion would just add new stuff instead of reseting everything... i mean, everything i did in wod is now meaningless:
leveled up? doesnt matter, gotta do it again
cleared mythic? doesnt matter at 105 youll get better greens from quests
maxed legendary ring? doesnt matter, its now garbage
learned and loved your class? doesnt matter, its been completely redesigned
maxed professions and got all the recipes? doesnt matter, they are all useless now
done your garrison every day and gathered shitload of mats? doesnt matter, they are all useless now
maxed reps? doesnt matter, they are all useless
created elite commando of followers? doesnt matter, they are all useless

i was so hyped for legion, but a week after launch this thought struck me and now i dont even want to play anymore because after legion its gonna be the same again, everything id do in the next 2-3 years would be completely nullified... yeah, fuck that.

Why is it with any RPG you play I always have to start at level 1 then after i beat the game. THATS IT!

Then I play a differerent game and expect me to start at sclum level again? I'm better than that!.

[Jakexe]

Can't really appreciate something I would never purchase.

[Jewsco]

Bought a Home? Doesn't matter gonna die later

Bought a car? But will get old.

Why should I go shopping everything will just get eaten.

Lol oh so true heck while at why even make a thread or respond to one right? There will only be another one right?
Might as well get in the fetal position and lay there.

[Deleted]

I think an awful lot of it simply has to do with WoW's aging player-base, and the changing gaming habits of gamers of all ages.

So do I, but the thing is that the problem exists, for whatever the exact reason, and they are moving to 5-man trying to fix that problem.

[Eurhetemec]

Yes but there is an even bigger elephant in the room, it is the huge amount of people that refuse to group at any level, and that only want to do solo or queuable content in a MMORPG, to the point that i am totally sure the new legendaries are in the game for a main purpose, so that people are bribed to go into the world, and at least to participate in world content, best case scenario for blizzard, they might even consider grouping with other players for raiding or dungeoning beyond the queuable content.

I'm not sure "refuse" is the right word here - I think it might actually be an unhelpful (if unintentional) misrepresentation of the problem.

I mean, I'm no stranger to grouping - I've played MMOs since 1999, so I've had to. I've lead guilds, I've lead raids (countless raids in DAoC particularly), I've lead PvP groups/raids. I always prefer to play with at least one other person.

But I still really prefer "queueable" content in a lot of circumstances, not because I "refuse" to group, but because I often don't feel I have enough time, or, to be totally honest, enough effort in me, to put together a group and get stuff done. This has been exacerbated by the death of the mid-range guild in WoW - killed off by a wide variety of factors, but leaving us only with "MYTHIC OR BUST!" raid guilds and social-casual guilds.

[Battlebeard]

I don't want a game with less raids, but rather more alternatives.

I love raids but my IRL won't allow me to guildraid, or rather, schedule time to play at all. I raid with PuGs when I got time. And pugs are usually terrible, so I can't fully enjoy the raids.

I wish for something you can do solo, to reach almost best gear and other items.

Like a system like this:

Awesome rewards, gear, mounts etc etc, obtainable the following ways:

- The raid way, do raids etc.
- The dungeon way, do dungeons on time etc.
- The pvp way, do bgs, arena etc alot.
- The solo way, like do alot of things like quests, exploration, grinds etc etc.

All 4 ways reward the SAME things. But you can CHOOSE what you prefer.

[Holtzmann]

WoW expansion with no raids? Sure.

So long as they gave us 3 new dungeons with every major patch and attached the gear treadmill to that instead. I never cared for raids, mostly because the fights take too long (particularly as DPS, doing my rotation for five minutes straight while dodging fire was boring) and herding 10+ cats into a proper team was always a pain in the ass. Dungeons are my sweet spot. Doing Cataclysm's heroics with 4 other guildies while everybody was fresh off dinging level 90 (read: without overgearing everything with raid drops) was one of the most fun things I've ever done in WoW. Sure, we got flattened a bunch of times and my little Holy Pally was running out of mana like she was having a sale on it, but it was fun.

(And then everybody else got raid gear and just trampled over any of the interesting mechanics in the dungeons. That's another reason I don't like raids: they trivialize the content I like to run.)

So yeah. Give me more difficult dungeons with proper rewards and you can leave raids to rot as far as I'm bothered.

[Cronovey]

I don't see the logic. Sure it's nice if the raiders are happy, but the hypotethical question is: would I MYSELF mind if there weren't any raids in the next expansion? Personally I wouldn't. That's the answer to the question. I just don't care. The silly part is when someone tries to convince me that if people who aren't me are happy, it will result in me being more happy. Nonsense. The more things I get that make me happy, the more I will be happy.

The logic behind it, as far as I can tell, is generally that with any large portion of the game being removed it would cause a loss of subscribers. Whether you remove PvP, remove raiding, decide to skip leveling and just make all new max level content as an "expansion" instead of a patch, remove pet battling or don't add new pets/mounts for collector type players, and so on, you'll lose that playerbase even if all of them are minority sections. With every thing that is removed, a small part of the community goes out with it to look for the next game that has what they want to do that will hold their attention, and that lowers the amount of people that you have to play with. For example, if I raid weekly with my guild and casually PvP on the side, I'd probably stop playing without raiding. This means one less player filling a spot in a battleground, one less player coming out when they hear the Alliance are ganking outside in Lorathil, etc. This means one less player doing pet battles or setting up a mount farming run, and all from the removal of one piece of content. The effects of removing something would be felt by all avenues of players, so realistically unless you literally play this game to sit by yourself and follow a story (in which case, you're not really playing an MMO) the removal of any part of the game will in some way impact your personal enjoyment of the game.

Remove raiding and your casual PvP players are gone, making queue times longer and reducing competition. Remove PvP and your casual weekend raiders are gone, making it harder to PUG and more difficult for raiders to succeed. The same applies for any portion of the game, because there are very, very few players who focus on a singular goal to the exclusion of all others.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure "refuse" is the right word here - I think it might actually be an unhelpful (if unintentional) misrepresentation of the problem.

I mean, I'm no stranger to grouping - I've played MMOs since 1999, so I've had to. I've lead guilds, I've lead raids (countless raids in DAoC particularly), I've lead PvP groups/raids. I always prefer to play with at least one other person.

But I still really prefer "queueable" content in a lot of circumstances, not because I "refuse" to group, but because I often don't feel I have enough time, or, to be totally honest, enough effort in me, to put together a group and get stuff done. This has been exacerbated by the death of the mid-range guild in WoW - killed off by a wide variety of factors, but leaving us only with "MYTHIC OR BUST!" raid guilds and social-casual guilds.

Yeah i understand, and i am in a very similar position myself, i am very happy with the new exp mainly because i am having a very good time doing 5-man content, content that is growing in quantity (Karazhan, Mythic+), allowing me to play with friends, or making it very easy to find one or two players to join us for doing that content.
I do not know if i would go back to raiding this expansion, but i already told my friends it is not a priority at all, and only if i can play with them, otherwise i would rather skip it, it ends being too problematic for my taste.

[Deleted]

If it means an expansion without elitists and e-peen showoffs,then yes,i will.

[Glaziola]

I would enjoy a world of Warcraft without raids. I liked a lot the previous weeks where the attention was on dungeons.

Pretty much, it was fun three weeks.

[RoKPaNda]

I would be perfectly fine with an expansion that cut out raiding entirely.

[Matt0193]

Yes, but then I no longer raid as my primary goal or activity. I'd love an expansion that focused on dungeons and added them far more frequently, continually updated the world to reflect each mini/story patch and so on.

[Shizzniz]

So basically GW2. Get boring pretty fast.

This. WoW raids are better than any other MMO's and it is what keeps me interested.

[Jewsco]

WoW expansion with no raids? Sure.

So long as they gave us 3 new dungeons with every major patch and attached the gear treadmill to that instead. I never cared for raids, mostly because the fights take too long (particularly as DPS, doing my rotation for five minutes straight while dodging fire was boring) and herding 10+ cats into a proper team was always a pain in the ass. Dungeons are my sweet spot. Doing Cataclysm's heroics with 4 other guildies while everybody was fresh off dinging level 90 (read: without overgearing everything with raid drops) was one of the most fun things I've ever done in WoW. Sure, we got flattened a bunch of times and my little Holy Pally was running out of mana like she was having a sale on it, but it was fun.

(And then everybody else got raid gear and just trampled over any of the interesting mechanics in the dungeons. That's another reason I don't like raids: they trivialize the content I like to run.)

So yeah. Give me more difficult dungeons with proper rewards and you can leave raids to rot as far as I'm bothered.

Isn't that what this new mythic plus will do? So why not give it a shot. Can always go up to higher difficulties and gear up in them sounds like they were built for you.

[bmjclark]

Wouldn't even buy it.

[TheWindWalker]

Considering I now work a full time job from 2pm to 11pm with non-consistent days, I would thoroughly prefer all the effort that goes into raiding be spent on dungeon, world quests and things like the Suramar Questline. Of course, that's in the vacuum wherein I'm focused on only my wants. I understand that without raiding a handful of people would simply not play the game at all.

[HumbleDuck]

No.
Even though I am not into competitive raiding any more, I feel any MMO without an endgame raid would feel incomplete.
I do agree that they still need to put more forms of world content in the game.