Britain will veto EU army, says Defence Secretary

[Deleted]

@GoblinP "I think the best option is to invite (buy) russia and then let the russians do the dying."
Then what is this army going to defend itself from if it is not Russia?

There are other uses for your armed forces.

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Is it not the British peoples will that the Government is meant to serve? It was up to the British people to stay or leave, as it affects the people more than anything. Some choose not to vote, yet bitch about the result.

I honestly think that voting should be mandatory, or face prison. Then people can't start the "oh lots of people didn't vote so that changes whole outcome, lets revote!"

Why did people vote to leave?
Because of the 350 million lie?
Because of border control? (when more than half of all UK migration is NOT from the EU)
Because Turkey might get free movement? (nope) Oh wait they meant no visa Req's Nope (the UK not being in schengen) Wait they meant Turkey joining the EU, the biggest driver for that is... The United fucking Kingdom.
Name an issue raised by the Brexiters and you can rapidly see that its nonsense, people were pissed and took it out on the EU for no reasons.
If the UK had proportional voting UKIP would have 10% in the parliament and nobody would give a fuck, but you have the least democratic from of voting (and complain the EU is undemocratic) so you get idiocy.

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As for calling Merkel as Hitler. Cute and pathetic. Just like yourself.

Nothing makes me wish Hitler won as Brexiters.

[Flurryfang]

First of all: Britain should really play the nice guy and just play along. They are already in a bad standing with most of the EU members, so they should really try to make friends now instead of enemies. Also, Britain is not gonna be part of the army anyway, since they are gonna leave before any law/program goes into effect.

But i don't really know why EU needs an army. The only enemy of the EU atm is either Russia or countries from the middle east and Nato is currently taking care of both those fronts. It will be hard to imagine what a EU army could do, which Nato could not. The western world is very much in peace atm, so an army would just be a waste of money. I think it is great though, that some are ready to implement this. Such military ambitions could be needed in the future, if anything bad ever happends in the eastern parts of Europe.

[Wikiy]

didnt we fight 2 world wars against germany to stop them ruling over europe, and look what there trying to do again with angela hilter i mean merkel

The day someone explains to me exactly what kind of brain spawns this kind of thinking, I will be able to finally kill myself, with how the biggest mystery of the universe will have been explained to me.

The two world wars were fought to stop Germany & Co. from becoming too powerful, and why? Because they were either imperialists or fascists and in both periods had grand dreams about the future where they conquer Europe/the World through war, and then said areas would serve these forces. That's what's wrong about it.

If Germany inadvertently conquers Europe through socio-economic means, what of it? Modern Germans are nice, efficient, slightly coldish and generally smart people. Just the way I like my people to be. Honestly, I don't mind that bunch having such an influence.

[Deleted]

Yet all you Euro's seem so keen to stick your oar in when it comes to the brexit.. doesn't work the other way?

This EU army (that is more of a coordination structure, but whatever) is a long term project - You are leaving in the near term - It's not that you cant veto it, its that its pointless because no decision you can veto will be taken now anyway.

an EU army is an AWFUL idea. from logistics, kit, training... not to mention, what does it stand to achieve that NATO doesn't? it just gives MORE power to Brussels.

well its primary value lies in coordinating the EU defense industry, a secondary one lies in diminishing NATO.

All you keyboard warriors who cry foul very much forget the impact the UK has in the EU.. especially militarily. our fighting force is the gold standard throughout the world. we wrote the book on SF operations. our marines. hell our standard ground troops. engineers.. the list goes on.

Yeah No.

Like, I understand all the tweens being butthurt, cos essentially we stuck a middle finger up at them and said we didn't want to play any more. but to downplay our significance in the west/EU is nothing short of outright lies and posturing.

You conflate once being significant with now being significant.

I voted Leave. this does not mean I do not like the EU, or European people (though some on this forum REALLY test that one.). I love my EU brethren, I just felt this was best for my kids future. but my god, the Vitriol coming out of some peoples mouths since brexit is really sad.

And i strongly doubt that, but time will tell.

Let's assume pure theory. that NATO wasn't a thing. and that Turkey all of a sudden rose up and attacked the EU (as opposed to the usual german suspects!). do you really think for one second we in the UK wouldn't be there? do you not think we would stand side by side with EU countries and fight?

Well You are required by treaty to defend all EU countries - NATO has first call on EU security matters, not the sole call.

The voter turnout was the best any UK vote has had since 1997.. the turnout was fine. far more than voted Cameron in.

Because you have first past the post voting, this is inconsequential.

[Zephire]

Yeah, you would need to be REALLY brave to do that considering some Europeans are getting raped and slaughtered in the streets as of late. But yeah, go ahead, put down your weapons. Your comment is idealistic, but unfortunately you have tribes of savages in the middle east still wanting to cut off civilized peoples heads.

Well, it's a long time goal. Much of the hate, violence and "slaughter" is because of war. Getting rid of war would improve that greatly. Rape, theft etc would most likely still be a thing but we've the police for that and without war and armies we could give more resources those fighting crime and preventing it by education, charity and inclusion.

Very much agreed. However, we are a still bit utopistic. Yet.

Meh, one gotta have a solid goal to work towards!

You do get that if we have an EU army, the logical end point is that Only the EU has an army?

Well, maybe but still, rather no NEED for armies then one.

[Derpleton]

Hahaha high five Britain!

[Deleted]

The two world wars were fought to stop Germany & Co. from becoming too powerful, and why?

Because British EU policy has always been to support the weaker party against the stronger party - It did that against teh french for hundreds of years, then with the french when Germany got United.
Them being fascist had nothing to do with anything.

If Germany inadvertently conquers Europe through socio-economic means, what of it? Modern Germans are nice, efficient, slightly coldish and generally smart people. Just the way I like my people to be. Honestly, I don't mind that bunch having such an influence.

And if Hitler had been the nicest most effective administrator, WW2 would still have gone down the same way.

[Austilias]

I can't claim to be surprised, yet another posthumous justification for having voted to leave in the form of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It used to be said of Prussia that it was an "army with a state", as opposed to other countries which had a "state with an army". As the EU continues to federalize and become an "ever-closer union" (something those darn Brexiteers were told would never happen, and so on), then it comes as no surprise that a a "super-state" would want a "super-army." Given what the EU were getting up to in Ukraine, however, I wouldn't trust them with it for a moment. Long may our spite continue to frustrate their schemes

[Deletedaccount1]

That's like breaking up with your partner, refusing to leave the house and then wanting a say in what's for dinner.

Dear Britain,
You left. Shut the fuck up.

They didn't leave. They held a vote to see how many people wanted to leave.

[Ulmita]

Listen EU army WILL BE ACCOMPLISHED.

I am not sure why people dislike the idea. Its the next natural step on creating an EU superstate, its the future.
You come here and lay down retarded arguments like it doesn't make sense logistically? Are you serious? And NATO makes sense logistically?

And this is whats up:

Brussels bureaucrats agree EU army HEADQUARTERS as plans move a step closer

GERMANY and France have moved another step closer to establishing an EU army – with both nations agreeing on a military base.

Both nations are committed to setting up an EU army – with the federal EU government agreeing that Brussels should be the headquarters of the project.
An EU Ministry of Defence spokesman said: "A permanent strategic EU headquarters should be established in Brussels.


"Since this is a military-strategic headquarters, the leadership of a Common Security and Defence Policy mission, requires the corresponding proximity to the political institutions."
EU ministers are due to meet on September 26 and 27 in the Slovakian capital of Bratislava to discuss the possibility of deeper integration between EU member states.
A decision on whether the experimental EU army is expected in December.


Defence Secretary Sir Michael Fallon reaffirmed Britain's opposition to the creation of the European army, stating that the UK would veto any move while it remained a member of the bureaucratic Brussels bloc.


EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker has mooted at the idea of the a "common military force" during the last EU meeting in Bratislava – where the UK was not invited.


Sir Michael said: "That is not going to happen. We are full members of the EU and we will go on resisting any attempt to set up a rival to Nato.




"We have always been concerned about unnecessarily duplicating what we already have in Nato."


Relations between Britain and the EU have become increasingly strained in recent weeks, with fears the veto threat could damage the UK's chances of continued access to the single market once Theresa May triggers Article 50.

Former European Council president Herman van Rompuy said Brexit negotiations would be “difficult” for Britain, with key EU member states Germany and France holding decisive general elections next year.


The EU’s leading Brexit negotiators, former Belgium prime minister Guy Verhofstadt and finance expert Michel Barnier, have both previously indicated their desire for the 27-member state bloc to drive a hard bargain with Britain in Brexit talks.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...-military-base

[Wikiy]

And if Hitler had been the nicest most effective administrator, WW2 would still have gone down the same way.

You just don't understand, do you? If Hitler had been the modern German of the likes I'm talking about, there wouldn't have been a war.

[Deletedaccount1]

Why even make an EU army? Why not just cut military budgets and focus on other things?

What impending conflict is there for the EU that makes this necessary?

[Slant]

Why even make an EU army? Why not just cut military budgets and focus on other things?

What impending conflict is there for the EU that makes this necessary?

The EU needs to be able to defend its borders. Against anyone. Without the help of the US. This means we need to be able to repell crazy Russians, extremist terrorist armies like ISIS and refugee waves that think they can just waltz through our borders.

So, why make an EU army? Because Europe is the best place on the planet and everyone wants to get here. Why not cut military budgets and focus on other things? Because cutting our budgets means not having an army. Yes, we spend that little to defense already.

[Deleted]

The tongue in cheek response is to suggest that Britain needs to try and keep things easier, the next time Europe comes knocking on our door when Germany feels confident enough to begin slapping them around a bit.

Although continuing in a similar vein, just financing countries is much easier than sending in soldiers.

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Serious head on, any EU country can veto anything it wants about our Brexit deal. Let's slap 20% on all your exports to us and sign a free trade agreement with India, China and Australia. There's a few places in the EU already salivating at trying to take the financial trade away from London, which probably could well happen afterwards. However, when the import nation of Britain is getting cheaper imports from outside the EU (or perhaps in the case of agriculture, a 20% take on French produce would dramatically increase the viability of British farming) some of the poorer countries are going to struggle, as well as some of the wealthier.

The German economy is remarkable in one regard, as the other economies around it get weaker, it tends to grow into that decline.

I never decided which way I'd have preferred the Brexit vote to have gone, on the plus side of staying we got much easier access to EU markets (although the business I work for could see a 20% rise in product prices for tax and we'd still be competitive on price with our French/Spanish/Italian competitors - right now on most €100-€150 lines we still have over a €15 price advantage, the regulations would just be a ballache) but on the flip side I always thought leaving was probably a better idea because long term I always thought the German economy would eventually begin to impede massively on the British economy.

An EU army does just seem unnecessary, instead looking to get something within NATO and establishing NATO infrastructure simultaneously would surely be killing 2 birds with 1 stone. You never can say never, but the only reason to really do it at an EU level instead of NATO level is saying that someday you might not want the other parts of NATO to know what we're doing. But then that's kind of stupid since the whole shebang is meant to be built on a basis of trust and ever closer working together, if you don't trust Canada and the US to do that, why would you trust a country that's just closer more?

[Deletedaccount1]

The EU needs to be able to defend its borders. Against anyone. Without the help of the US. This means we need to be able to repell crazy Russians, extremist terrorist armies like ISIS and refugee waves that think they can just waltz through our borders.

The situation with refugees would be resolved if every EU country decided to just let them and open their borders in general.

Russia isn't going to attack Europe either.

[Wikiy]

Listen EU army WILL BE ACCOMPLISHED.

I am not sure why people dislike the idea. Its the next natural step on creating an EU superstate, its the future.

Maybe because people don't want a European federation that soon? Sure, most of the EU population wants a federation at some point, but not that soon. Also, an EU army makes no sense without common foreign and defense policy. And a common policy cannot be accomplished unless the common decisions supersede national ones. You can only accomplish that if the states we're talking about aren't sovereign, i.e., if they're in the federation we're talking about.

[Derpleton]

The EU needs to be able to defend its borders. Against anyone. Without the help of the US. This means we need to be able to repell crazy Russians, extremist terrorist armies like ISIS and refugee waves that think they can just waltz through our borders.

So, why make an EU army? Because Europe is the best place on the planet and everyone wants to get here. Why not cut military budgets and focus on other things? Because cutting our budgets means not having an army. Yes, we spend that little to defense already.

I Lol'd /10char

[Wikiy]

So, why make an EU army? Because Europe is the best place on the planet and everyone wants to get here.

I can already see it, in 30 years' time, the United States of America and the United States of Europe, at the new olympic event: who can scream: "Me is the bestest!" the loudest.

Let's not follow the path of our transatlantic Western brethren in everything, please?

[Noradin]

But you said you were raised in English speaking countries, none of them have better food.

He didn't he said the places were English speaking, not that those places were English speaking countries.
(Yes you can have English speaking places inside non-English speaking countries in Europe. I lived in some of those.)

[Deleted]

I can't claim to be surprised, yet another posthumous justification for having voted to leave in the form of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It used to be said of Prussia that it was an "army with a state", as opposed to other countries which had a "state with an army". As the EU continues to federalize and become an "ever-closer union" (something those darn Brexiteers were told would never happen, and so on), then it comes as no surprise that a a "super-state" would want a "super-army."

Because you have Had a VETO.

Given what the EU were getting up to in Ukraine, however, I wouldn't trust them with it for a moment. Long may our spite continue to frustrate their schemes

But you aren't.
This thing wont happen any time soon, and you are leaving 'soon'.