AOE fire mage

[Wenoxar]

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You should not use Living Bomb on a single target fight

Yeah, but on like faceroll RHC dungeons you don't really want to waste gold for swapping before boss and after boss, so that is 2 times per boss. Give or take 5 bosses per dungeon that's 9 tomes which isn't so cheap.

[Deleted]

I don't usually have any problems with aoe rotation but I have no idea what to do if I have combustion available and I am going into big aoe pack, do I just st for big ignites, or is is there better way to use it, like scorch fireblast flamestrike repeat? Combustion seems luck luster for aoe either way. Is it worth it if I just pf fb fs pf fb fs pf fo fb fs scorch fb for that extra crits on flamestrikes? Sure without comb you use flamestrike on 4 targets but with it you get 800% (crit) sp pyros which roll double amount on ignites with mastery from comb, so maybe that's where that >10 number comes from. Thoughts?

Also when do you rop when using living bomb? Do you lb first than rop? I do it like that but still not sure when living bomb actually benefits from rop. Also when do you use cinderstorm? Not sure in both on comb and off. Ot is cinderstorm worth on st during combustion? Is it worth even on aoe during comb?

[Tyze]

Yeah, but on like faceroll RHC dungeons you don't really want to waste gold for swapping before boss and after boss, so that is 2 times per boss. Give or take 5 bosses per dungeon that's 9 tomes which isn't so cheap.

When you enter a random hc, you get a minute before the dungeon run to fully change your talents for free.

[Wenoxar]

When you enter a random hc, you get a minute before the dungeon run to fully change your talents for free.

We clearly misunderstood each other =)

/thread:

Seems like, from my point of view, the best talents for dungeons depending on situation are:
- Level 15: all
- Level 45: Rune of Power. Incanter's Flow only for really movement heavy fights. Did around 40 dungeons so far and had problems with RoP only when I didn't know the tactic, so I couldn't plan ahead. RoP is great
- Level 60: Flame On (Blast Wave might be useful only if you like to switch talents A LOT during instance, like switching Flame On to Blast Wave after Serpentrix boss in EoA when you're about to enter the cave, and switching back to Flame On after you leave the cave. Usable for extreme min-maxers)
- Level 75: Ring of Frost > Ice Floes for trash. Don't underestimate Ring of Frost! Otherwise Ice Floes even on minimum movement-heavy boss fights.
- Level 90: No idea, really. Living Bomb seems like go-to for trash and for certain bosses like 2nd boss in Vault of the Wardens dungeon. Otherwise Unstable Magic. Tested Flame Patch only just on single instance run so won't judge that talent, but imo it sucks after nerf.
- Level 100: Cinderstorm > Kindling most likely but Kindling > Cinderstorm if boss fight is long enough to make use out of it. Also Kindling allows you to use Combu much often between bosses. You don't really have to worry "Should I use Combu on this trash? Meh, what if CD doesn't come back for boss?! :S". I don't really take Cinderstorm because it's yet another thing to learn to play with, and I have already enough trouble to learn to perfect. Cinderstorm is probably superior choice than Kindling in most scenarios. Imo Meteor is shit.

My opinion after ~40 dungeons. Will give more detailed information once I'll be able to call myself pro, that might take a long long while.

What's your opinion, guys?

[Biomega]

I pretty much agree.

I've been running with this:

Conflagration
Shimmer
Rune of Power
Flame On
Ice Floes
Living Bomb
Cinderstorm

Tested all manner of configurations, and this one I like the best. I'm definitely #TeamCinderstorm, but I get that some people have reservations about it - I can only suggest you practice and be smart about it, but I won't lie that you will never ninjapull Still, with practice you can reliable hit very well with it and it can do QUITE some damage on a bunch of stacked mobs. Kindling is definitely the other choice, but it can be very difficult to time correctly so you get the most out of it. Especially if you PUG a lot and have a high degree of variance in runs, you may end up in awkward spots. No question that it's great for bosses, but that's not all that 5man is about.

I've been faring well in terms of damage, but it's obviously a struggle to go against Rogues, DHs, and Hunters with their insane snap AoE. No surprise. I accept it, and move on. They in turn get to watch me burst into flame and take 50% off the boss HP in 10 seconds.

[Deleted]

Kindling is currently very weak because we run 5mans that have significant downtimes and the spell is simulated to be slightly better on regular prolonged fights so I doubt it has the time to proc beneficially. Meteor is weak on its own there since it splits damage. So cinder is a given even if it's probably not the best idea for a spell ever.

[fearist]

Not sure how slow you're going but in my mythics and in mythic + in the future when you're doing big pulls, kindling is going to be very worth it. I rarely have any down time even in 5 mans. If I have to pug and a tank is going too slow, I'll show him how to go fast myself.

[Deleted]

I ran with cinderstorm for heroics and did reasonably well on track, but on non-RoP pulls the hunter and tank normally out DPS's me in our group...

For Mythic I switched to Kindling thinking bosses would be long enough for 2xCombust but only a couple of bosses have lasted long enough so may switch back to cinder.

[Deleted]

I rarely have any down time even in 5 mans.

Did you miss that there are elevator bosses, running back to rooms, etc.?

[Biomega]

Note that downtime can also be a benefit to Kindling. You are reducing the CD while still on the pack, and it continues to tick down during downtime. Since time not spent fighting technically doesn't exist (in terms of DPS), downtime effectively reduces the CD on Combustion. Yes you lose some value on Kindling because it's not doing anything, however you increase the chances for good burst windows by allowing a reduced-CD Combustion to get back up as you move from pack to pack.

Of course, simulating this for any kind of meaningful comparison is next to impossible, particularly considering the fact that in some runs you'll chain pull like mad while in others you have time enough to get married and raise kids.

[fearist]

Seems like negligible downtime to me

[Deleted]

Yes you lose some value on Kindling because it's not doing anything, however you increase the chances for good burst windows by allowing a reduced-CD Combustion to get back up as you move from pack to pack.

Of course, simulating this for any kind of meaningful comparison is next to impossible

That's a worthless argument, since without Kindling at all you still have that "advantage" (and everyone else in the group).

And it's probably easy to simulate it if it allows gaps in dpsing or gaps in the target being up.

[Bloodmagix]

cinderstorm is dangerous because of unwanted aggro much like hunter's barrage

Just gotta be careful when aiming it, it's actually quite easy to not pull unwanted trash, just gotta not be a derp when casting it

I'm using Living Bomb on +3 targets, small CDS to get off a Flamestrike proc to apply ignite to everything then Cinderstorm it all to death.

[whisperingsage]

Living Bomb is worth casting with only two targets, actually. Fireball only does 175% to one target, and then you get another 10-15% off ignite, but Living bomb does at least 180% damage to the main target, and that's if the spread doesn't explode for another 80%. Not to mention it's instant.

[Sarkol]

Conflag, Shimmer, Rop, Ice Flows, Living Bomb, Cinderstorm is great all round build that works in all situations. Unstable Magic is barely better than not even having it. It does fuck all damage, so obviously you take Living Bomb which is unparalleled on trash. Conflag similarly is almost as, if not as good single target than Pyromaniac, and vastly better than the other talents on aoe.

There's a debate about Cinder and Kindling when it comes to Mythic dungeons, but the latest murmurs and discussions i've heard Cinder is just better, period. I could believe it, but Kindling letting you have more massive bursts for add packs would probably be good. Is it better than a Cinder every 8 seconds? No idea. Cinder does a shit load of damage, but it requires positioning and range checking, which some people may not like as opposed to the passive kindling. Also, in some dungeons Cinder may be too risky to be worthwhile, where Kindling will be the default choice.

[yarafx1]

I think you may be using flamestrike to much, unless you are on or around 10 adds don't use it. Use Living bomb on CD and spam pyroblast into one target the ignite from it spreads and ends up being more damage then flamestrike. If you're using Cinderstorm, PF first. fireblast, Pyro. Then cinder because they all should be affected by ignite at that point. Honestly I am just reducing the CD of Conbustion as its around a 60-70 CD if your crit is high enough. Don't be afraid to use it on trash though. Dungeons are like long ass boss fights with short breaks to kill single target enemies.

[D3athsting]

Cinderstorm is good as a filler between heating up and fire blast/pf instead fireball because it won't waste heating up in case of non crits, also helps a lot build 5 stacks of pyretic incantation when combustion is used mid-cast

[Kanariya]

Flamepatch is really undervalued. It deals quite a lot of damage still, even post pre-patch nerf, especially with adds that do not die quickly. I've had no issue out-dpsing LB spec'd fire mages in aoe.

As for Cinderstorm, you can easily get behind or on the side of a mob to prevent it from pulling other targets. Don't be afraid of it. You should be close anyway for Dragon's Breath.

[DayDayKnucks]

I don't know if someone mentioned this, but I just unlocked my 3rd gold trait which was Phoenix Reborn. I haven't had a chance to test my numbers yet, but is this a significant improvement AOE wise? It definitely looks like it should be.

[whisperingsage]

Flamepatch is really undervalued. It deals quite a lot of damage still, even post pre-patch nerf, especially with adds that do not die quickly. I've had no issue out-dpsing LB spec'd fire mages in aoe.

As for Cinderstorm, you can easily get behind or on the side of a mob to prevent it from pulling other targets. Don't be afraid of it. You should be close anyway for Dragon's Breath.

The issue with Flame Patch being good for adds that don't die quickly is that the larger ignite from pyro has time to spread and tick does more damage if the adds live a long time.