Should I raid with a guild that uses Loot Council?

[Ham on Rye]

I have been out of the raiding scene for years and from what I am reading personal loot seems like a better overall gearing option for entire guilds but on my servers the only guilds recruiting are all loot council based. I am wondering if the Inner circle buddy system will be prevalent and something I should just walk away from.

I joined this one guild recently since all 5 of the only mythic guilds recruiting all used loot council but has anyone had alot of good experiences with loot council or should I just cut my ties? I did notice that the officers were all grouped together doing mythic modes seeming to exclude other members but that is natural to want to group up with your closer knit friends so that has no bearing on this issue. Just seems ripe for abuse over personal loot or DKP.

Loot Council is the best loot method or the worst loot method. It is completely 100% dependent on the people who are on the Council.

As a result, your question should not be "Should I raid with a guild that uses Loot Council?"
Your question should be "Are the officers of this guild selfish, asshole dipshits or are they good, honorable people that only care about the success of the raid?"

And obviously, that's a question that you're going to have to do some research on your own for in order to answer. Make a level 1 and ask people in the guild, post on the official realm forum, etc. WE cannot answer that for you here.

- - - Updated - - -

Just because you've been in guilds with shitty people does not make it the system's fault. Personal loot is absolute garbage for a lot of raiders.

Just because some people have had bad RNG with Personal Loot doesn't make it the system's fault. Personal loot has been a godsend for a lot of raiders.

See how that works?

[Jewsco]

No it isn't. In fact tonight it just happened. I got a 855 ring with a socket. 2 bottom stats so it's worse statistically even with the gem then the 845 and 840 ring I have. But, because it's higher iLevel then my two rings it can't be traded. So it's getting vendored. A master/council loot system would've allowed the other 4 classes who could use it do so.

Personal loot has some positives but it also has many negatives. We ran into this with 5 different items on the 4 bosses we killed.

With 15ilevels and a socket thier is no way it isn't better for you at this point in the expansion got anymore stories to tell us?

- - - Updated - - -

I just posted multiple examples of why personal loot is terrible for progression. It's only good for friends and family where you really don't care how optimal loot is. Loot council worked great when we used it for 4 expansions. But it's a *lot* of work.

You don't necessarily need people to have a high knowledge of every spec. You need your players who are rolling on the loot to know what they need. Then let the council decide based on upgrade and who hasn't received loot in a while, attendance, etc.

We use a /random 100 system now but reserve the right to intervene or prioritize certain classes or tier sets. It speeds up the loot process for us since everything will drop again. But last night we ran personal loot and it sucked ass.

And in your own post you have shown multiple reasons why loot council sucks ass you say.
The council must have knowledge of what is bis for all classes or the individual raiders must be honest of what is a try upgrade and both of those are assuming or expecting a lot from the players.
Because the vast majority are known to be knowledgable,Fair and not greedy right?
Specially since the op doesn't know these people and is the new guy or did you miss that?
For long running stable raid groups sure it is great but that isn't the op's situation.

- - - Updated - - -

Loot council is fine. Any decent raiding guild worth a damn won't abuse the system and will distribute loot fairly in such a way that the ENTIRE group will benefit. I prefer it much more to point based systems like...DKP...eww.

Key is established known raid team which isn't the op's case here or did you miss that?

[Emek]

Each loot system has it's flaws. When I raided with a DKP system, someone was bidding on a side grade, and he kept outbidding me like a fucking dickhead, even though it was HUGE HUGE upgrade for me, so I made him spend every single point of his DKP because i realized i hated him at that moment. A friend, in the same guild, got outbid on every single piece of healing leather, and then the person who won every piece of gear stopped logging in and the resto druid (my friend) that we were left with had no gear.

I've had shitters get loot in loot council systems also, but it's slightly less frustrating -TO ME-.

It just comes down to what you want to deal with

[shaunika123]

Loot council is fine and typically is fair. Good people get loot and terrible people get put on the waitlist. Raiders should be rewarded based on performance and role in the raid. Obviously Maintank should get priority drops, top dps, etc. It's a team effort and just because you don't get a piece of a gear first doesn't mean it wont end up being your turn next time.

clearly you're only worried about getting an item whether or not you truly deserve it. Loot councils are obviously going to be very subjective based on the guild itself, each experience is going to be different. When I lead a guild years ago for progression raiding we were typically always fair and we took into account; performance, attendance, preparedness, etc.

think you quoted the wrong guy since you basically just agreed with me

[Thelin]

think you quoted the wrong guy since you basically just agreed with me

opps that's weird, meant to quote the OP, but yes we agree.

[smaktat]

We have used loot council for 8 years.
If you are worried about abuse and not getting gear then don't raid.

If some one said this shit to me before they tried to join my guild they would never be considered for a single piece.

Easy there Mountain Dew sponsored edge lord he proposes a good point. While Loot Council makes more sense in a more broad range of situations, PL really isn't a terrible suggestion. Forcing everyone to just accept the RNG of PL would at least cut out SOME loot drama. That doesn't mean it wouldn't cause other types of drama to raise its head, but it is worth considering.

[shaunika123]

LMAO

Loot Council makes sense for the top 50 guilds or so in the world that compete for server firsts with others or world firsts.

For anyone else Loot Council is BS and only leads to drama that is not needed at all.

yeah cos only top 50 guilds splitraid, or have classes with different stat priorities so they dont need certain relics/items/etc

[Karon]

Loot council in top 5-10 guilds = Legit.

Loot council everywhere else, especially anywhere not top 100-500 = HUR DUR WE WILL GEAR OUR GROUP OF FRIENDS FIRST SO WE CAN ACT ALL PRO AND MIGHT IN LFR/LFG.

Bullshit.
/10

[pmkaboo]

loot council => easier to get bis gear for everyone
personal loot => good for pugs, or guilds that act like pugs => where the majority of raiders value getting items more than killing bosses, to avoid drama

[Knot]

We have used loot council for 8 years.
If you are worried about abuse and not getting gear then don't raid.

If some one said this shit to me before they tried to join my guild they would never be considered for a single piece.

you rock...

[Aeriedk]

So you wouldn't take offense at someone, for all intents and purposes, calling you a thief?

All loot systems have pros and cons, but LC gets the most flak due to people not liking the idea of others judging them and giving them loot based off performance.

If you take it as being called a thief rather than someone being concerned about a system that has a track record of being susceptible to corruption I say that you took it the way you wanted to see it. LC are groups of people so it could be someone else that drives the council, it could be the entire loot council, who knows. I just don't know why you would think that someone asking that question is calling you a thief... its a far stretch...so perhaps you are a thief.

I wouldn't have any problems if I was asked about the LC being corrupt. When I was a recruiting officer in the past (if that question came up) I didn't have a problem with it. I usually just told them "if you deserve loot, you will get loot" and go on about how spots and loot are earned and how loot is distributed in the way the LC sees fit to help the guild progress.

[Kuruption]

Man, the amount of people who've been in a crappy loot council guild is amazing, and they expect every guild with a loot council to be the same.

"Lolol all you do is gear the inner circle, what a crappy system!"

Well, hate to break it to you, but you've been in crappy guilds if that's happened, because the guilds that ran it right that I've been in and wasn't part of the inner circle, that never came up.

[Deleted]

This man soeaks the truth. At the end of the day if the loot distribution matters that much to you then you're not worth recruiting.

Hahahahahahhaahh yeah dududUDUUDEUDUEUD you don't care about loot distribution at all, that's why you want a fucking designated group of people to have control over and hand out all loot drops. Sounds likely.

[Propainn]

With 15ilevels and a socket thier is no way it isn't better for you at this point in the expansion got anymore stories to tell us?

Why is that so unbelievable? I have 850 bracers sitting in my bags while I'm wearing a set of 830s with Mastery, because the 830s were an upgrade. Clearly you don't understand how stat weights work...

OT: Loot council (in any half-decent guild) is by far and away the best method, so long as those on the council want to progress more than anything. The vast majority of councils care much more about progression than the ilvl of themselves or their friends. Cut the conspiracy crap.

[Osoroshii]

I tried a loot council guild once during Wrath for about a month and I will never be a part of one again.

We (the other new recruits and I) were told very bluntly that "some people might get gear every raid, and some people might never get anything. You're just going to have to deal with it."

Really? You're going to tell new people they might never be allowed to have any drops?

Then we were told off-specs and alt characters will never get gear, period...unless they're for members of the core team/council. So if they asked me to shelve my warrior for the night in favor of bringing my shaman and extra heals, I couldn't have any Resto mail that dropped, even if no one else needed it; it would be sharded and and auctioned, with the money going into the guild bank for repairs...that only the highest-level officers could even use.

I stuck it out for a month. I didn't complain, I didn't beg for drops, even as they were sharded because no one in the council needed them. One day in ICC25, I decided I'd had enough; they sharded an upgrade I needed because the council didn't need it, and I just /gquit and left the raid on the spot. Fuck them, and fuck loot councils.

[Tharkkun]

And in your own post you have shown multiple reasons why loot council sucks ass you say.
The council must have knowledge of what is bis for all classes or the individual raiders must be honest of what is a try upgrade and both of those are assuming or expecting a lot from the players.
Because the vast majority are known to be knowledgable,Fair and not greedy right?
Specially since the op doesn't know these people and is the new guy or did you miss that?
For long running stable raid groups sure it is great but that isn't the op's situation.

You don't need to be experts to know what loot you need or how to distribute it. That's a pretty big misconception because you'll never get it perfect. No system will ever be perfect and at the same time loot will always drop again. Loot envy causes systems to break. Not the system itself.

So use the system that the guild is most comfortable with whether it's Council loot, dkp, /random, etc. No system is better than the other except personal loot which sucks.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

People are forgetting that one bad thing happening does not a rule make.

[Tharkkun]

I tried a loot council guild once during Wrath for about a month and I will never be a part of one again.

We (the other new recruits and I) were told very bluntly that "some people might get gear every raid, and some people might never get anything. You're just going to have to deal with it."

Really? You're going to tell new people they might never be allowed to have any drops?

Then we were told off-specs and alt characters will never get gear, period...unless they're for members of the core team/council. So if they asked me to shelve my warrior for the night in favor of bringing my shaman and extra heals, I couldn't have any Resto mail that dropped, even if no one else needed it; it would be sharded and and auctioned, with the money going into the guild bank for repairs...that only the highest-level officers could even use.

I stuck it out for a month. I didn't complain, I didn't beg for drops, even as they were sharded because no one in the council needed them. One day in ICC25, I decided I'd had enough; they sharded an upgrade I needed because the council didn't need it, and I just /gquit and left the raid on the spot. Fuck them, and fuck loot councils.

That's not council loot. That's people being assholes and a guild allowing themselves to be walked all over. The entire point of council loot is to evenly distribute the loot to those who need it most while at the same time rewarding people who attend and perform every week. The 4 expansions we ran council loot for we only sharded items that had no offspec value.

[Deleted]

Every guild leader that wants their guild to remain as stable as possible for multiple expansions, will council loot. The purpose of loot council is to (outside of funnelling loot to specific roles for specific encounters) ensure that there is balance accross the raid so as to not be dependent upon 1 or more individuals.

A guild funnelling to much into a few people, like a clique of friends, will result in the guild dying as to many expectant raiders leave for another guild doing things better.

As a player, you should be hoping for a council system, as rolling for gear is fail, personal loot is fail and, most importantly of all, being loot hungry or seeing loot as the main motivation to raid, is fail.

Don't fail. Give it time, keep track of loot as best you can and see what happens.

Progress > Loot.

[baskev]

I have been out of the raiding scene for years and from what I am reading personal loot seems like a better overall gearing option for entire guilds but on my servers the only guilds recruiting are all loot council based. I am wondering if the Inner circle buddy system will be prevalent and something I should just walk away from.

I joined this one guild recently since all 5 of the only mythic guilds recruiting all used loot council but has anyone had alot of good experiences with loot council or should I just cut my ties? I did notice that the officers were all grouped together doing mythic modes seeming to exclude other members but that is natural to want to group up with your closer knit friends so that has no bearing on this issue. Just seems ripe for abuse over personal loot or DKP.

LOL

It all depends on your guild who are in the loot council. I heard of many bad example's. But my guild used it very nice. You all gave your bis/second bis/os etc in loot council. They looked ( where well informed in all class needs ( had a tank, dps, melee dps and healer in the council) so was very fair. And you can also trade it with members.

And to be honest. If you are doing mythic personal loot is the WORST idea ever. Because its even more rng then normal. You can min max way better with other loot giving methods.