Frost dk im so upset.

[biolink22]

Damage is already done,could not get a guild as frost, no one wanted an experienced player all the way from vanilla to WoD just because frost sucks, been asked to go unholy but the new unholy is a spec that makes me sad to play, i would better reroll than play it.

Gonna be honest, I would decline you too, playing a frost DK at this point is a detriment to the raid as much as I wish it wasn't the case. And if you aren't willing to play the spec that is all around better in all aspects, I wouldn't have you as a DK.

[Deleted]

Sooo I tried out the tank artifact I find it quite funny it has a passive ability that devours the souls of the people you kill and increases your power. I mean wtf blizzard what happened? How come frost does not have such an ability?

[Life-Binder]

DK will be my 3-rd char to level to 110, I will probably start after 2+ weeks have passed since EN opened, by then the tuning hotfixes have to be live already

if they buff Frost to at least ~current Ret/Destro levels raid dmg-wise (yes Im not aiming high ), I will take that, and level and DPS as Frost


if they wont even do that much .. I will probably just stick to Blood only and forget about DPS on DK .. I might try UH but I dont really like it enough to commit to it

[biolink22]

They do, they run into the ghost of arthas out in the world and it gives the artifact power or some such.

[murbaez]

It's okay guys, i'm sure that Blizzard will see how weak Frost DK is performing, give some buffs and everyone will start to switch back to Frost because it's going to be decent enough to play again!

...And then after 1 week they will nerf it to oblivion again because it would be too close to top 5 specs and then everyone will no longer care and just reroll to another class or unholy again...kind of like what happens all the time. Yeah sounds about right...

[Nemesquish]

It's okay guys, i'm sure that Blizzard will see how weak Frost DK is performing, give some buffs and everyone will start to switch back to Frost because it's going to be decent enough to play again!

...And then after 1 week they will nerf it to oblivion again because it would be too close to top 5 specs and then everyone will no longer care and just reroll to another class or unholy again...kind of like what happens all the time. Yeah sounds about right...

Its honestly pretty unbelievable how bad the WoW dev team is at balancing classes, and the QA team is just as bad.

Letting the same class be top for almost 2 years, giving the same class arguably the strongest Legendaries (one for ST, and even one for AoE), and letting the same 2 specs be trash tier for MORE than that amount of time is baffling. Frost may be bad, but Ele is just as trashy at everything (Atleast Frost can AoE decent)

[ant13]

There are no sign that they are gonna change anything on frost. No tweet, neither blue post.

[dkdk]

I've stuck with frost for DPS since the original rework (no more frost tanks and blood dps). There have been highs and lows, but I couldn't even level my DK frost. I gave up and am having fun playing a demon hunter.

I'll probably finish leveling my dk at some point, but I can't get myself to play UH, so he's benched unless they do something about frost.

[Deleted]

It's not your fault Frost is shit DPS, that is Blizzard's problem. They themselves chose to go for this new Artifact system that makes people commit to their specs so they better balance things well from now on.

[Kithelle]

It's okay guys, i'm sure that Blizzard will see how weak Frost DK is performing, give some buffs and everyone will start to switch back to Frost because it's going to be decent enough to play again!

...And then after 1 week they will nerf it to oblivion again because it would be too close to top 5 specs and then everyone will no longer care and just reroll to another class or unholy again...kind of like what happens all the time. Yeah sounds about right...

They couldn't see this in the Beta, with all the raid testing and general testing they do there? They have let so many stupid class imbalances go live into Legion, like I've said over and over it's my biggest disappointment.

I'm a big Unholy fan, but I've got a Frost DK as well...and this is BS, I mean they cut 2H Frost so it would be easier to balance...yet they still can't balance it? You'd think they were some shitty little nobody developers like Cryptic who can't balance a game in the least...not some big name developer with millions to billions of dollars behind them.

Maybe this is why people are leaving...they Blizzard has nothing left...they don't know what to do...they're void of any ideas.

[exriel]

Gonna be honest, I would decline you too, playing a frost DK at this point is a detriment to the raid as much as I wish it wasn't the case. And if you aren't willing to play the spec that is all around better in all aspects, I wouldn't have you as a DK.

So I assume you are competing for World First, where this matters? Let people play what they want to play. If you need to cut because their DPS isn't enough, then cut them because their DPS isn't enough. Not because their spec theoretically sims lower than another on a Patchwerk fight with no mechanics.

[bungie]

DK will be my 3-rd char to level to 110, I will probably start after 2+ weeks have passed since EN opened, by then the tuning hotfixes have to be live already

Looks like they might drop some tuning on us on Tuesday but I wouldn't expect any sweeping changes to frost till 7.1 if at all, any changes they might do will be number tweaks in this upcoming balance hotfix. Maybe it is a spec that will feel a lot better and more fluid once you get raid gear with a lot of haste on it but I wouldn't hold out.

Therefore, at this point we’re aiming to hold off on a broad pass of tuning hotfixes until the end of the first week of raiding and Mythic Keystone dungeons.

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749088032#1

[Vinho]

I can solve everyone's problem, go Blood. LOL

/sarcasm off

[Dracovian]

It's true we've been pointing out the short comings of the class in multiple threads both here and on the official forums but Blizzard does not make a minimal effort to address us Frost players. In the last Q&A they addressed warlocks and gave them the 3 shards. No mention of DK whatsoever.

They had Alpha and Beta and at no point Frost has been competitive. The data was there, the feedback was given, world class raids said it yet nothing. Frost's issues have been well documented. The artifact is also a huge problem. It's quite possibly the worst artifact between dps specs. No synergy, no interesting interactions, just a bunch of passive buffs and a 5 min nuke as the active. Crystalline Swords are 4-6.5% of Frost dps. Hypothermia is garbage especially when you consider you are 20 traits deep by that point. Think of the mileage Monks and DH for example get out of their artifact actives compared to SF.

Frost is very fun when you get to play it as intended. As of now the machine gun setup is the only competitive alternative. This contradicts everything Blizzard was striving for to make all talents viable. I can't imagine the class without Frostscythe and GA outclasses the other too by a lot. I'm going to wait until the next tuning and see if Blizzard truly listens to feedback and looks at data.

A part of me suspect they are just going to nerf Unholy and leave Frost as is. I really hope I'm wrong.

[Shibito]

Would like unholy without pets tbh, i would play frost too if it was viable but unholy is way better i hate the pets so much

[biolink22]

So I assume you are competing for World First, where this matters? Let people play what they want to play. If you need to cut because their DPS isn't enough, then cut them because their DPS isn't enough. Not because their spec theoretically sims lower than another on a Patchwerk fight with no mechanics.

It isn't even about "theoretical" numbers, Unholy is literally just flat out better in all aspects in pve, better burst, better sustain, better aoe. There is NO reason to take a frost dk to any raid right now, world first or otherwise. And honestly if you aren't playing to do the best you can on the class you choose to play, your attitude isn't suited for raiding anyway.

[exriel]

It isn't even about "theoretical" numbers, Unholy is literally just flat out better in all aspects in pve, better burst, better sustain, better aoe. There is NO reason to take a frost dk to any raid right now, world first or otherwise. And honestly if you aren't playing to do the best you can on the class you choose to play, your attitude isn't suited for raiding anyway.

Maybe it's not acceptable in your raid, but in my raid, if the Frost DK is topping the meters and executing mechanics, I'm not going to ask him to switch specs. If I was ever in a group that did that, I would quit so fast. It's a sign that the Raid Leader doesn't really understand how to lead and just parrots the last blog post they read. If I were playing a DK, sure, I'd play Unholy for the reasons you've listed, but other guys can do what they want. If the Frost DK was struggling, I might suggest they give Unholy a try. But if they don't want to switch and they can't do the DPS the encounter requires, it's not like there aren't a billion other melee DPS of all sorts of specs trying to get their spot. Let the competition decide the winners, not some arbitrary idea of what's best that is based on an extremely limited sample size.

[biolink22]

Maybe it's not acceptable in your raid, but in my raid, if the Frost DK is topping the meters and executing mechanics, I'm not going to ask him to switch specs. If I was ever in a group that did that, I would quit so fast. It's a sign that the Raid Leader doesn't really understand how to lead and just parrots the last blog post they read. If I were playing a DK, sure, I'd play Unholy for the reasons you've listed, but other guys can do what they want. If the Frost DK was struggling, I might suggest they give Unholy a try. But if they don't want to switch and they can't do the DPS the encounter requires, it's not like there aren't a billion other melee DPS of all sorts of specs trying to get their spot. Let the competition decide the winners, not some arbitrary idea of what's best that is based on an extremely limited sample size.

It's not about parroting blog posts, it's about hard, solid, facts. And unfortunately the fact is Frost is literally in a very bad place at the moment, almost as bad as unholy was back in Cataclysm after the big nerf patch o'doom. And in your make believe scenario, if the frost dk was topping the meters, that would tell me that the rest of my raid group was playing terribly and I would be looking to make changes, including to the frost dk. It's not an opinion that frost is hot garbage right now, it's fact, and you arguing against it shows ignorance beyond belief. I wish it wasn't fact because I enjoy DK in general, and I'd love to see Frost get it's niche back, but at the moment it is by and large in a bad enough state that it's not worth keeping a stubborn player when I could easily find someone willing to play unholy who with even mediocre skill will out dps them in all aspects.

[Dracovian]

Maybe it's not acceptable in your raid, but in my raid, if the Frost DK is topping the meters and executing mechanics, I'm not going to ask him to switch specs. If I was ever in a group that did that, I would quit so fast. It's a sign that the Raid Leader doesn't really understand how to lead and just parrots the last blog post they read. If I were playing a DK, sure, I'd play Unholy for the reasons you've listed, but other guys can do what they want. If the Frost DK was struggling, I might suggest they give Unholy a try. But if they don't want to switch and they can't do the DPS the encounter requires, it's not like there aren't a billion other melee DPS of all sorts of specs trying to get their spot. Let the competition decide the winners, not some arbitrary idea of what's best that is based on an extremely limited sample size.

If a Frost DK is topping the charts he is either overgeared or your other dps players are not up to par skillwise. Assuming equal skill and ilvl It's not right that you execute your rotation at 90% efficiency and get beat by 20%+ damage by others just because they picked x or y spec. That's terrible game balance and it is NOT okay. That's FDK's current situation. You don't have to be in a world class guild to deserve your spec to be able to compete.

[RuneDK]

Looks like they might drop some tuning on us on Tuesday but I wouldn't expect any sweeping changes to frost till 7.1 if at all, any changes they might do will be number tweaks in this upcoming balance hotfix. Maybe it is a spec that will feel a lot better and more fluid once you get raid gear with a lot of haste on it but I wouldn't hold out.


http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749088032#1

I again do not think it's a haste issue. Our build with the most throughput actually despises haste. They need to increase coefficients of EVERY ability for a Frost DK. Whether it be reduced cooldown on Breath of Sindragosa or increasing Obliterate/FS damage. The only ability that I personally don't think needs a lot of tuning is Frostscythe.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not about parroting blog posts, it's about hard, solid, facts. And unfortunately the fact is Frost is literally in a very bad place at the moment, almost as bad as unholy was back in Cataclysm after the big nerf patch o'doom. And in your make believe scenario, if the frost dk was topping the meters, that would tell me that the rest of my raid group was playing terribly and I would be looking to make changes, including to the frost dk. It's not an opinion that frost is hot garbage right now, it's fact, and you arguing against it shows ignorance beyond belief. I wish it wasn't fact because I enjoy DK in general, and I'd love to see Frost get it's niche back, but at the moment it is by and large in a bad enough state that it's not worth keeping a stubborn player when I could easily find someone willing to play unholy who with even mediocre skill will out dps them in all aspects.

Just unholy really wasn't THAT bad in cataclysm. They fixed an unintended way to play by making SD proc off MH only, thus killing DW unholy. Unholy was then relatively on par with Frost for single target fights once they got the right gear. It then eclipsed Frost once you got into Dragon Soul and got a normal Gurth'alak. The problem is 10 man was a far more prevalent during that time, so people getting a Gurth in world progression was actually not that common. Which is why frost dominated the world race, but eventually got shit on by mastery stacking Unholy DKs. Unholy has never been as bad as Frost has been for the last two tiers, as well as how bad it was in ToT and then going into the beginning of the current pre-tier.