Should I raid with a guild that uses Loot Council?

[Tharkkun]

Thanks for proving how a loot council could go bad. Updated stat wieghts from a night before changes how big of an upgrade an item is. So someone not of your class might not know that but be deciding on gear see how that could and does lead to problems? Thanks for helping

You make no sense at all. Why would I have put my name in the hat for a piece of loot that wasn't an upgrade? At the same time a loot council wouldn't award a piece of loot that was a 1% upgrade versus someone that gained 5 or 10%. Loot drops every week as well so nothing will be perfect.

I'll bet the loot that people received this week from personal loot that's a downgrade really helped a raid team progress? Wrong. It sets them back.

[Zerroth]

As soon as the human element is introduced, corruption can and will occur. A system such as Personal loot puts the pressure on the game and boss for not dropping it for you, rather than the council for giving it to someone else. The personal loot system is better.

[P for Pancetta]

As soon as the human element is introduced, corruption can and will occur. A system such as Personal loot puts the pressure on the game and boss for not dropping it for you, rather than the council for giving it to someone else. The personal loot system is better.

corruption always occurs, even in non-human elements.

[Aliven]

Its very rare, in my experience. Unless you have actual proof to your claim?
.

"There is no world hunger, because i now eat a sandwich".

[Tharkkun]

As soon as the human element is introduced, corruption can and will occur. A system such as Personal loot puts the pressure on the game and boss for not dropping it for you, rather than the council for giving it to someone else. The personal loot system is better.

You also risk loot being completely unusable which in our case was 5 pieces of loot that couldn't be traded. Hail Personal Loot! The killer of progression!

[Kidoeng7]

A raider will perform better than a trial as they have better gear. Does that mean you give loot to your best geared elements? Then that wouldn't be the biggest upgrade would it? Or did i misunderstood?

Let me explain it a bit more, biggest upgrade is the primary factor (based on ilvl and stat weights), so if an upgrade is minor <5% we do also consider the rank by this i mean a core member over a new trial.
As for the raider will do better than trial part, in the early weeks of new raid almost every1 of our roster or any roster for that matter will be the same ilvl +/- 3 so if some1 performed better than the other its not the gear its the skill, also keep in mind that if you use logs u can see how a player performed for his ilvl which also helps a lot when choosing.

hope i was clear enough
cheers

[Uoyredrum]

Loot council is the best loot method, period. It is somewhat prone to abuse but no more so than others like DKP. It's simply the only good choice if you're raiding seriously though. Guilds with a well run loot council who want to progress will use the LC to gear up certain roles/players first but also try to spread gear around to ensure the raid has maximum performance where they need it. Simply put a smart LC will generally put the gear where it's needed/deserved. If you're worried, show that you're skilled/reliable and you shouldn't have an issue.

[Kidoeng7]

Have you played this game at all lately? Do you know how greedy and self centered most players are nowadays?
Yes in top guilds, ones with great and fair gm's and officers and/or one someone has been in for years and everyone is known loot council works. But did you read the op at all? He will be new to the guild knows best to no one or how they are. Odds aren't great that thier loot council is fair. Might be why that guild needed to recruit a new memebers think of that? I wouldn't join a guild with loot council nowadays unless I knew someone from said guild and how they run things. Going in blind is asking for problems. Look how eke replied in this thread that if one questioned they would get no gear or kicked. Lots of players in this game like lording over others. Look how many still lost here whining others get purple gear so they can't peacock around showing off anymore. Would you trust people with that attitude to distribute loot fairly? I wouldn't.

I have been playing this game for quite a while now (since tbc) and i refuse to think that all the people are scumbags because i have meet a whole lot that are the opposite.
Let me tell you something i have been in the same guild from tbc to late mop 5 times main raids of 4 hours and 1-2 alt raids a week so when my obligations and work took most of my time i had to cut the raiding to semi-hardcore 3 nights a week 3 hours raid. We were 4 friends that left my old guild and we thought to start a new one in wod. We did struggle but managed to down higmaul hc before having to disband since people wanted mythics and we had only 10-14 raiders. So we applied to a guild in which we knew no1 just because they needed a few players and if accepted they could get all of us (5ppl), they used lootcouncil with the addon (in my old guild we linked what we had and the council decided) well lets say we are still in the same guild now and we never had an issue with the loot.

If the officers and gm want the guild to compete and progress they have to gear every member of the raid, so its not the loot method that is wrong some people are

[Deleted]

As soon as the human element is introduced, corruption can and will occur. A system such as Personal loot puts the pressure on the game and boss for not dropping it for you, rather than the council for giving it to someone else. The personal loot system is better.

As soon as you are interested in efficient raid gearing and fast progression, personal loot is literally the worst option. Way too much useless crap-loot.

[Jewsco]

I have been playing this game for quite a while now (since tbc) and i refuse to think that all the people are scumbags because i have meet a whole lot that are the opposite.
Let me tell you something i have been in the same guild from tbc to late mop 5 times main raids of 4 hours and 1-2 alt raids a week so when my obligations and work took most of my time i had to cut the raiding to semi-hardcore 3 nights a week 3 hours raid. We were 4 friends that left my old guild and we thought to start a new one in wod. We did struggle but managed to down higmaul hc before having to disband since people wanted mythics and we had only 10-14 raiders. So we applied to a guild in which we knew no1 just because they needed a few players and if accepted they could get all of us (5ppl), they used lootcouncil with the addon (in my old guild we linked what we had and the council decided) well lets say we are still in the same guild now and we never had an issue with the loot.

If the officers and gm want the guild to compete and progress they have to gear every member of the raid, so its not the loot method that is wrong some people are

I am happy for you that you found such a good sounding guild but that isn't always the case.
And someone should go into a new guild knowing to be a bit suspicious otherwise one is setting themselves up for disappointment.
As a few posters have shown here how they have responded by never giving gear to someone that questions anything proving how bad loot council can go.
If done right loot council is indeed great but that is assuming it will be done right and that is the whole point of this thread after all that it isn't always done right.
It can and has gone bad for many a guild/player as long as other humans are making the calls for loot things can go bad as a lot of humans are greedy.
Just do one pug and see how it is. People are kicking players from dungeons for not passing personal loot to them Nevermind it could be an upgrade for the person getting the gear due to stats or an off spec. Add in at the end of the day it is thier loot to do with as they please and one sees how silly people get over gear in this game.

[Deleted]

I have been out of the raiding scene for years and from what I am reading personal loot seems like a better overall gearing option for entire guilds but on my servers the only guilds recruiting are all loot council based. I am wondering if the Inner circle buddy system will be prevalent and something I should just walk away from.

I joined this one guild recently since all 5 of the only mythic guilds recruiting all used loot council but has anyone had alot of good experiences with loot council or should I just cut my ties? I did notice that the officers were all grouped together doing mythic modes seeming to exclude other members but that is natural to want to group up with your closer knit friends so that has no bearing on this issue. Just seems ripe for abuse over personal loot or DKP.

DKP is absolute shit, no amount of point decay will ultimately save the raid from themselves, there will always be people sniping, there will always be people not taking actual upgrades to benefit the raid because it's "more optimal" for them to sit on their points and try get sth else, all in all turning a simple thing like looting into a metagame where players in a group bid/play in effect *against each other* sucks major dick. Personal loot is absolutely more inner circle buddy buddy that LC, if anything, because of the simple fact that people can trade items. Who do you think will be handed additional pieces of loot from people who don't need it as it drops? Guys they've known and played with for several tiers, or that one chick who's so tee hee funny and cute, or you, Mr Random New Guy Number Six?

No, council is *the* way to go. It's prone to human error and bias as anything, but at least there is a small group of people making an actual decision to be held personally accountable for, rational discussion is usually possible and you will very quickly see if things work or no. If they don't, just say kthxbye and change guild, this is what trial is for - it's not just for the RL and officers to assess you, it is also for you to assess them.

[Jewsco]

As soon as you are interested in efficient raid gearing and fast progression, personal loot is literally the worst option. Way too much useless crap-loot.

Rng is rng even with loot council or any form of loot distrubutation it happens.
Last expansion the priest/paladin/warlock tier set kept dropping even though we had only one priest and that was it for that tier.
The joke in raid was our priest had a tier set for everyday of the week.
Sometimes it dropped mutiple ones from a boss.
Rng is rng and sucks.
At least with personal loot the loot will be for the classes one has in raid and if not an upgrade tradable but that can a total rng fest too.
Nothing is perfect

[Kidoeng7]

I am happy for you that you found such a good sounding guild but that isn't always the case.
And someone should go into a new guild knowing to be a bit suspicious otherwise one is setting themselves up for disappointment.
As a few posters have shown here how they have responded by never giving gear to someone that questions anything proving how bad loot council can go.
If done right loot council is indeed great but that is assuming it will be done right and that is the whole point of this thread after all that it isn't always done right.
It can and has gone bad for many a guild/player as long as other humans are making the calls for loot things can go bad as a lot of humans are greedy.
Just do one pug and see how it is. People are kicking players from dungeons for not passing personal loot to them Nevermind it could be an upgrade for the person getting the gear due to stats or an off spec. Add in at the end of the day it is thier loot to do with as they please and one sees how silly people get over gear in this game.

Mate dont put progression focused guilds and pugs in the same post that doesnt make sense at all. As i said in all my wow experience havent heard once issues with loot distribution from any1 that i know, keep in mind not pugs nor casual guilds.

Please share me your opinion on what loot method to use because to tell you the truth i dint read all your posts in this thread.

[Statix]

I've been in Loot Council guilds before, I've actually been on the Council myself, but based on my experience, it sucks.

It so happens that time and time again other, better Frost Death Knights (during ICC progression) didn't get any gear, because there was this one guy that was underperforming, badly. I pointed out to the Council that this guy is doing everything wrong. The wrong enchants, the wrong gems, the wrong talents, the wrong rotation, all of it. And his DPS was mediocre at best. Still, because the other Death Knights, three in total with myself included, did great DPS, we hardly ever got any gear, because the Council wanted this guy to improve.

To make things worse, I was made the Death Knight class leader. So, I had the authority and the experience needed to help this guy become better, but he didn't. I eventually was put on the Council myself, and still, they kept on giving this guy gear. After weeks of raiding, this guy got 3 pieces for every one piece the rest of us three Death Knights got. And after weeks, this guy was still at the bottom of the DPS, all the DPS.

I wanted this guy out of the raid, because he was performing badly and all gear he got was wasted. Needless to say, as a class leader I had the power to do so, but management stept in, because he was a friend of the guild... Further proving the bias towards this guy. I left the guild shortly after and enjoyed many months of being in a 13/14 HC ICC pug. Just rolls, equal chance for everyone and performing badly resulted in a kick. No bias, no ass kissing.

Loot Council is way too biased, or sometimes based on misinformation, or the belief that someone can perform better by just throwing gear at his face. It's not that simple.

[Deleted]

I've been dealing with loot council since WotLK generally, across a few different guilds. It just works the best at higher levels of progression, where everybody in the raid cares more about progression than their own gear anyway. You could honestly remove loot council in most deep mythic guilds, as the vast majority of players I've raided with since WotLK will pass on an upgrade if it's a notably higher upgrade for someone else. People will generally police themselves , and just /roll if it's an about equal upgrade for equal contributors. Loot drama is almost exclusive to lower level progression guilds with how easy it is to get gear now compared to earlier expansions, especially those without bonus rolls, and the new titan/warforged system.

Has the guild been well progressed, with relatively low turnover for a few years? Probably safe to trust the council. Newer guild with a high turnover, and noticeably cliquey atmosphere? Probably not.

+1

You hit the nail on the head.

If you have competent and knowledgeable players (meaning they at least know how good an item is for them) that are mainly motivated by progression, loot councils work like a charm and they are the best way to gear up your raid.

If player motivation is more relying on getting loot, use DKP or PL or whatever. But all of these options do have their downsides, too, and won't gear up your raid as efficiently as a LC.

The problem is that many people are unable to put in any effort to actually find a decent guild/raid, but can somehow spend a lot of effort and time on bitching and whining on how shitty theirs are/were. Go figure...

[Jewsco]

Mate dont put progression focused guilds and pugs in the same post that doesnt make sense at all. As i said in all my wow experience havent heard once issues with loot distribution from any1 that i know, keep in mind not pugs nor casual guilds.

Please share me your opinion on what loot method to use because to tell you the truth i dint read all your posts in this thread.

Depends on the situation to flat out say loot council is better is wrong. To say any type of loot distribution is better than another without knowing the situation is wrong.
The overall fairest I have see is /roll with a limit of one win of gear a night(ms gear)unless no one else rolls or needs the gear. That way all can get gear instead of funneling it all to one or a few players. But again like I said it depends on the situation if the goal is to funnel gear to one or a few players then that isn't ideal.
All forms can work if done right but the op is going in blind and is the new guy and any form of loot council, dpk etc... Usually is bad for the new guy and is the point of this thread.

[Deleted]

Raiding is a group effort. If certain group members need an item more because its more beneficial to the collective, thats the way it is and the way it should be.

We use RC Lootcouncil. Where you get to define wether an item is BiS, a minor upgrade, etc. Based on that loot will be distributed however tanks and healers usually gain dibs. Why? Because the better gear the healer has, the less people die. In our guild trials dont get to roll on loot the first raid. Why? So they dont leave with 2 pieces of gear after 1 setback which harms the collective.

Raiding = collective effort. If you wanna be a soloist, go pug or dont raid.

[Zeusy]

I've raided with loot council, and DKP, and free for all.

DKP and loot council are very good systems but you have to commit for months and months to a guild. I've seen some people say loot council is a greedy system but its there to work to make their guild thrive to the fullest. If you are just there for loot and not for the guild its not for you.

Joining a guild with loot council shouldn't be your focus, the focus should be you are looking for a long term commitment type guild that you can make a home for. Pugging with guilds who do loot council is a thing you shouldnt do if the gear is your focus and not earning kills.

[Xires]

I have been out of the raiding scene for years and from what I am reading personal loot seems like a better overall gearing option for entire guilds but on my servers the only guilds recruiting are all loot council based. I am wondering if the Inner circle buddy system will be prevalent and something I should just walk away from.

I joined this one guild recently since all 5 of the only mythic guilds recruiting all used loot council but has anyone had alot of good experiences with loot council or should I just cut my ties? I did notice that the officers were all grouped together doing mythic modes seeming to exclude other members but that is natural to want to group up with your closer knit friends so that has no bearing on this issue. Just seems ripe for abuse over personal loot or DKP.

I've had nothing but good results with the guild I'm in and its loot council. If you have a GM and officers that distribute loot based off of a criteria and what is best for the raid then you've got a solid loot council. Besides gear should never be your #1 priority in progression- killing bosses should.

[Jewsco]

I've had nothing but good results with the guild I'm in and its loot council. If you have a GM and officers that distribute loot based off of a criteria and what is best for the raid then you've got a solid loot council. Besides gear should never be your #1 priority in progression- killing bosses should.

Loot drama hasn't been the number 1 cause of guild problems since the game has launched?
You are lucky and found a good guild doesn't mean it will or does work for all.