[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Vanderhuge]

I also love the amount of QQ coming as a result of Lore's tweets. These poor babies didn't need to endure the pain of "TO THE GROUND". People these days have more triggers than the parts section of a gun show.

[Deleted]

I also love the amount of QQ coming as a result of Lore's tweets. These poor babies didn't need to endure the pain of "TO THE GROUND". People these days have more triggers than the parts section of a gun show.

people are, just like us police, very trigger happy

[Sigxy]

Right, I have a question, because of our bad mobility, regarding the adds on the worm boss in Neltharion's Lair on Mythic+ where you have a timer. Sorry of this is the wrong place to bring it up!

Retribution, as far as I'm aware, is tied with Unholy Death knights to be the slowest spec in the game regarding getting from Point A to point B. If the other 2 DpS are ranged, and very good with their DpS: Should the Retribution paladin slowly run over to help with the adds ASAP, even though they may very well be close to death already by the time we arrive and then have to run back all the way to the boss - or should the paladin just help out with Hand of Hinderance from a distance and when the adds get close, THEN help to kill them as they are not instantly devoured?

Normally it'd be a good idea to run over and kill them if there wasn't any timer, but since there is, would that end up being a waste on said timer to help out ASAP and spend too much time running around not doing any proper damage?

[Eon Drache]

Changes I would like to see

1) Echo of the Highlord - Mimics any ability that costs Holy power, dealing 10% of the normal damage. Buffs JV and ES at the same time.
2) Justicar's Vengeance base damage increased by about 25%. Have the stun bonus increase by 75-80%. Its the only dps talent in a row and it isn't even worth using when it costs the same as TV (DP proc).
3) Shield of Vengeance. Make it deal the damage when the buff falls off, too. With the talents it still has a 90 sec CD for a very small absorb and most times it won't even deal any damage because it doesn't break. PvE we have to stand in bad which usually hurts others around us. And in PvP we get CCed and ignored or ranged break it.
4) Judgment as a buff not a debuff. Some of the boss fights fucking suck. Makes no difference in pvp since you know... 24 second duration. Lawbringer would need changed, though.

[Deleted]

1) Echo of the Highlord - Mimics any ability that costs Holy power, dealing 10% of the normal damage. Buffs JV and ES at the same time.

Won´t happen for JV since it is a defensive ability. I don´t think they would buff us (on that end)*. ES would make sense but how would that work? second ES when cast or when it lands?

2) Justicar's Vengeance base damage increased by about 25%. Have the stun bonus increase by 75-80%. Its the only dps talent in a row and it isn't even worth using when it costs the same as TV (DP proc).

defensive talent so we won´t see any buff to it.

3) Shield of Vengeance. Make it deal the damage when the buff falls off, too. With the talents it still has a 90 sec CD for a very small absorb and most times it won't even deal any damage because it doesn't break. PvE we have to stand in bad which usually hurts others around us. And in PvP we get CCed and ignored or ranged break it.

Main objective for this spell is to prevent dmg the explosion when consumed is more of a flavor thing. Also that would mean a dmg buff -> won´t happen

4) Judgment as a buff not a debuff. Some of the boss fights fucking suck. Makes no difference in pvp since you know... 24 second duration. Lawbringer would need changed, though.

this argument is here to stay since the very first iteration of the judgement debuff. They won´t change it, not even at guns point. I do agree that it would help us but again that would be a buff.


*not just not on that end but on all ends looking at ret history

[Morally Grey Storm]

How about making ES interact with DP procs in any reliable sense.
How about Echo of Ten Percents affecting more than 2 out of 6 HoPo spenders
How about Cavalier charges cooling down simultaneously
How about JV healing at all against absorbs
How about making mastery at least slightly desirable stat
How about fixing VB and GJ actively clashing against each other, where one wants you to get crit adn the other does not

[Deleted]

How about making ES interact with DP procs in any reliable sense.
How about Echo of Ten Percents affecting more than 2 out of 6 HoPo spenders
How about Cavalier charges cooling down simultaneously
How about JV healing at all against absorbs
How about making mastery at least slightly desirable stat
How about fixing VB and GJ actively clashing against each other, where one wants you to get crit adn the other does not

*sign* how often do I have to tell you to not be greedy? They will give us a talent interaction with 7.1 and they will just take crusade in turn? anything else is out of line!

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Much less crit/haste gear than anything else basically.

Well, in terms of what I'd find useful, Ret isn't the only ones with *bad itemization* but hey I'm crazy like that

[Morally Grey Storm]

*sign* how often do I have to tell you to not be greedy? They will give us a talent interaction with 7.1 and they will just take crusade in turn? anything else is out of line!

all of that is due to us.
There is no greed in claiming what is due.

[Deleted]

all of that is due to us.
There is no greed in claiming what is due.

Come on mate, we already got Ashbringer..

[Morally Grey Storm]

Come on mate, we already got Ashbringer..

and Warriors got Stromkar.
So what?

[Deleted]

I'm just saying I'm starting to believe that joke.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I'm just saying I'm starting to believe that joke.

What if I told it was no joke?

[Deleted]

I'll be shocked if Execution Sentence doesn't get a buff when they next do tuning.

I actually hope they don't. That ability is clunky to use on an already clunky rotation as it is. Last thing we need is adding this ES to it. I am convinced they will redesign it in 7.1. It doesn't fit the tier it's in aswell.

The thing id want to see is judgment finally becoming a buff, retribution passive nerf and numbers buff. That would at least get things in the right track.

[Vuagnon]

Despite not liking tanking much, I'm seriously considering a switch to prot.

- - - Updated - - -

How about making ES interact with DP procs in any reliable sense.
How about Echo of Ten Percents affecting more than 2 out of 6 HoPo spenders
How about Cavalier charges cooling down simultaneously
How about JV healing at all against absorbs
How about making mastery at least slightly desirable stat
How about fixing VB and GJ actively clashing against each other, where one wants you to get crit adn the other does not

Last one is an interesting find, though I believe they have intentionally made some conflicting talents like that. I don't like VB btw. It promotes more rng and just doesn't really feel like a solid choice unless you stack an enormous amount of crit along with haste. One could also argue that they aren't conflicting because you will definitely need a reasonable amount of haste for VB to have a meaning. But then again, I have to say that Ret still needs work to become attractive again.

[Ryuji]

I posted it in the Ret thread talking about Emerald Nightmare but after looking over the logs again, on fights where I was up there if not top of the meter, it was because of Retribution's uptime being 20% or higher. That's kind of depressing considering that on other fights where its uptime was about 6% or so I was a bit farther down the list, like 5th/6th, even 8th on Elerethe. :<

[Taeldorian]

I posted it in the Ret thread talking about Emerald Nightmare but after looking over the logs again, on fights where I was up there if not top of the meter, it was because of Retribution's uptime being 20% or higher. That's kind of depressing considering that on other fights where its uptime was about 6% or so I was a bit farther down the list, like 5th/6th, even 8th on Elerethe. :<

Elereth is a weird fight overall. For our guild we had tanks and two healers go over with some dps, but if you weren't the dps that got the wings your damage would obviously drop since you got to the other platform late.

Overall, if you look at heroic logs (towelliee even mentioned the ret in his guild was top 5 on most fight and top 2 on some) ret is in an okay spot damage wise. I have yet to see logs of a serious and good ret being bottom of the barrel, worst I've seen is 6-7th or 7-8th on fights. Buffs would be nice though, would put us in a really good spot depending on the buffs and what abilities get buffed (looking at you, AoE).

[Ryuji]

Elereth is a weird fight overall. For our guild we had tanks and two healers go over with some dps, but if you weren't the dps that got the wings your damage would obviously drop since you got to the other platform late.

Overall, if you look at heroic logs (towelliee even mentioned the ret in his guild was top 5 on most fight and top 2 on some) ret is in an okay spot damage wise. I have yet to see logs of a serious and good ret being bottom of the barrel, worst I've seen is 6-7th or 7-8th on fights. Buffs would be nice though, would put us in a really good spot depending on the buffs and what abilities get buffed (looking at you, AoE).

I got wings for Elerethe and didn't get hit with the venom debuff much, my ilvl's around 850 atm. I think it just bugs me that the uptime on Retribution makes that big of a difference, almost like having more wings uptime.

[Taeldorian]

I got wings for Elerethe and didn't get hit with the venom debuff much, my ilvl's around 850 atm. I think it just bugs me that the uptime on Retribution makes that big of a difference, almost like having more wings uptime.

I'm not sure if it's obvious in the data but maybe they'll move some of that away from retribution. They did say we aren't balanced around it though so maybe they'll leave it and increase damage elsewhere? My guess is that they'll move some damage away from retribution and buff us somewhere else.

[Puzzony]

I'm not sure if it's obvious in the data but maybe they'll move some of that away from retribution. They did say we aren't balanced around it though so maybe they'll leave it and increase damage elsewhere? My guess is that they'll move some damage away from retribution and buff us somewhere else.

You're not around here, right? Blizz simply does not take away dmg from one place and put it to another if it comes to ret, it will be CHOP-CHOP retribution and that's it.