Arms Legion Discussion

[Anuibus]

I think they should get rid of IFTK and give us back the Sudden Death proc. Cuz then the talent does not weaken the faster you kill the boss. Sudden Death was a nice play style too.

I think they should merge IFTK and mortal combo and then give us something new.

[Valkaneer]

I think they should merge IFTK and mortal combo and then give us something new.

Why would you do that? Shattered Defenses would still only have synergy with FR then. IFTK will always be shit because it is tied to the last 20% of a bosses life and the more gear that your guild has the worse IFTK becomes because that last 20% will become shorter and shorter.

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But what's the brand new and exciting legendary ring ability going to be then ?

Change the ring IMO, I would rather have a fun and exciting spec to play.

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I mean you could give the ring IFTK, but the ring right now is better than IFTK as a talent. Or just double the proc rate if the ring is worn and Sudden death taken ... OK that might be crazy op though LoL

[Anuibus]

Why would you do that? Shattered Defenses would still only have synergy with FR then. IFTK will always be shit because it is tied to the last 20% of a bosses life and the more gear that your guild has the worse IFTK becomes because that last 20% will become shorter and shorter.

Mainly because mortal combo and IFTK are both extremely lackluster on their own. even combined the talent would still be junk. Offering like 4k dps over nothing compared to the 60k FR offers.

IFTK isn't like juggernaut. Lacking the rampup time, it doesn't get worse from a shorter execute phase. I ran 4 sims. Duration 600 seconds and 100 seconds +-20% taking IFTK and taking no talent. at 100 seconds, IFTK had 2282 additional dps, and at 600 seconds IFTK had 2577 dps. a negligible difference.

[Valkaneer]

IFTK isn't like juggernaut. Lacking the rampup time, it doesn't get worse from a shorter execute phase. I ran 4 sims. Duration 600 seconds and 100 seconds +-20% taking IFTK and taking no talent. at 100 seconds, IFTK had 2282 additional dps, and at 600 seconds IFTK had 2577 dps. a negligible difference.

It still has hardly any synergy with SD, while FR always has synergy.

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I would take Sudden Death any day over IFTK

[Bigbazz]

This exploit the weakness nerf is going to turn Arms into aids, if they had nerfed FR and addressed the rest of the class it would have been nice, but they just nerfed the entire thing and made it play even more like shit without addressing fuck all.

[Anuibus]

It still has hardly any synergy with SD, while FR always has synergy.

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I would take Sudden Death any day over IFTK

I'd rather have something different that isn't a copy paste of the legendary ring which was copy pasted from our talent which was removed

[Valkaneer]

I'd rather have something different that isn't a copy paste of the legendary ring which was copy pasted from our talent which was removed

That ring is a problem and is always going to be one. And a LOT of people like the play style of Sudden Death. Thing here is that Shattered Defenses must have synergy with all 3 talents in the 75 row. If not FR will always win.

[Anuibus]

That ring is a problem and is always going to be one. And a LOT of people like the play style of Sudden Death. Thing here is that Shattered Defenses must have synergy with all 3 talents in the 75 row. If not FR will always win.

I'm fine with FR always winning. Some talent is always going to win. Doesn't mean i'm going to play it though.

[Noctus78]

This exploit the weakness nerf is going to turn Arms into aids, if they had nerfed FR and addressed the rest of the class it would have been nice, but they just nerfed the entire thing and made it play even more like shit without addressing fuck all.

This exactly.
Arms will still perform better than fury..but at what cost.
Play a potential frustrating spec, or go fury and accept the dps loss

EtW needed to be changed for relic choice sake. But i cant understand this. they recently lowered CS cooldown even with current proc chance to tactician.

[Bigbazz]

The ETW spec actually hurts the other builds more, FR already had way more tactition procs than the other builds which is also part of why it was better. The ETW nerf just makes all the Arms builds infinintely more aids to play, while the FR build will for the same reasons still be the best.. If they had not nerfed ETW the bridge between the builds would be smaller.

Like I always said, nerfing FR is not going to magically make the other Arms builds good. And they went one step further nerfed the entire spec without addressing any issues to make it less of an RNG turdfest. So now we have an even more aids RNG fest to deal with, but with a lower potential and lower average dps to the tune of about 15 % dps ish.

[Valkaneer]

I'm fine with FR always winning. Some talent is always going to win. Doesn't mean i'm going to play it though.

It doesn't win by a small margin, it wins by a long margin. I bet 25 - 30% more dps.

[Deleted]

This exploit the weakness nerf is going to turn Arms into aids, if they had nerfed FR and addressed the rest of the class it would have been nice, but they just nerfed the entire thing and made it play even more like shit without addressing fuck all.

"Tactician
Requires Warrior (Arms)
Requires level 18
You have a 0.65% chance per Rage spent to reset the remaining cooldown on Colossus Smash and Mortal Strike."

Now that we have that established, lets take a quick rundown of this whole ordeal.

20 rage on MS and Slam, our main ways to refresh CS, with whirlwind in aoe packs at 25 rage. (it uses base chance, not the dauntless numbers)

So the base chance to reset is 15% on MS and Slam and almost 19% on whirlwind.

This means that even if you went with three full relics of EtW at 60%, the proc chance would still be a wooping 24% on MS and Slam and 30% on Whirlwind.

And yeha, that is more... but lets take the new numbers at 18% as the max increase. This puts the chances to proc at 17.7% for MS and Slam and 22% for whirlwind.

So this MASSIVE nerf to rng, isnt really that massive. And hell my warrior has no points in that talent, I get at least 1-3 resets per trashy world mob I kill.

Arms will be fine, it will no longer dominate the top of the pack, but it will still be fine.

Edit: well fuck I did these calculations with a 0.75% chance not a 0.65% chance, so its all a few percent lower than stated, but the point remains.... Its a fairly small nerf, it just made the relics less of a BiS

[Valkaneer]

Like I always said, nerfing FR is not going to magically make the other Arms builds good. And they went one step further nerfed the entire spec without addressing any issues to make it less of an RNG turdfest. So now we have an even more aids RNG fest to deal with, but with a lower potential and lower average dps to the tune of about 15 % dps ish.

Very true and that is because of SD synergy with FR. They need to fix the 75 row to work more with SD.

[Deleted]

It doesn't win by a small margin, it wins by a long margin. I bet 25 - 30% more dps.

I'm still with him on that, it is not a fun playstyle. And I dont do cutting edge content so that doesnt matter, I still compete just fine with every dps I've run with, except som specs on aoe :P

[Bigbazz]

"Tactician
Requires Warrior (Arms)
Requires level 18
You have a 0.65% chance per Rage spent to reset the remaining cooldown on Colossus Smash and Mortal Strike."

Now that we have that established, lets take a quick rundown of this whole ordeal.

20 rage on MS and Slam, our main ways to refresh CS, with whirlwind in aoe packs at 25 rage. (it uses base chance, not the dauntless numbers)

So the base chance to reset is 15% on MS and Slam and almost 19% on whirlwind.

This means that even if you went with three full relics of EtW at 60%, the proc chance would still be a wooping 24% on MS and Slam and 30% on Whirlwind.

And yeha, that is more... but lets take the new numbers at 18% as the max increase. This puts the chances to proc at 17.7% for MS and Slam and 22% for whirlwind.

So this MASSIVE nerf to rng, isnt really that massive. And hell my warrior has no points in that talent, I get at least 1-3 resets per trashy world mob I kill.

Arms will be fine, it will no longer dominate the top of the pack, but it will still be fine.

I already went through full 30s CS wait time windows on this weeks Xavius HC kill and "it will be alright" is nonsense because from a gameplay point of view it was already shit. Arms was only dominating the top of the pack when RNG gods praised them, which is clearly seen by searching the rankings breakdown from about 70%-99% Arms only dominates at the very top where RNG is most favourable.The problem we have now is they have just created more RNG as a form of nerf.. It was literally the reason I wanted to quit playing my Warrior because I fucking hate RNG, and now they have just made it worse.

The damage nerf to my char is in the region of 50k simmed dps, though how accurate that is I'm not entirely sure since simcraft numbers are not very accurate to ingame at the moment if you look at logs, SC posts higher averages over 100k iterations than the rank 1 logs.

[Deleted]

Well it seems to only be a reduction of about 1% on tactician procs. Going from 11% to 10% reset chance on FR w/ dauntless talent.
It might not be too bad. But I'm not holding out hope. If the RNG does become too great as an Arms warrior I'll be quitting the game.
I spent too much time working on my warrior to start over somewhere else. And I didn't re-roll warrior because it was OP, my warrior has been my main
since wrath.

Exacltly, It's usual from Blizzard to proceed to class balancing but this time with the artifact thing we have to spend a bunch of time to grind. I haven't a lot of time to level up my main and I have to get a week off to do it correctly. Today I manage to reach 22 points in arms artifacts traits none in Fury and Protection. When I look at the forum It seems that the nerf is huge. From a consumer point of view, I consider Blizzard ruins my hobby with the conjuction of Artifact and Class balancing. We'll see but it this spec which is already unpleasant to play, and frustating becomes worst I'll be quitting too. I really thing that Blizzard has a very bad idea with the artifact things. This coud be if they choose to stop balancing

[Deleted]

That's a cute story, but I already went through full 30s CS wait time windows on this weeks Xavius HC kill and "it will be alright" is nonsense because from a gameplay point of view it was already shit. Arms was only dominating the top of the pack when RNG gods praised them, which is clearly seen by searching the rankings breakdown from about 70%-99% Arms only dominates at the very top where RNG is most favourable.The problem we have now is they have just created more RNG as a form of nerf.. It was literally the reason I wanted to quit playing my Warrior because I fucking hate RNG, and now they have just made it worse.

The damage nerf to my char is in the region of 50k simmed dps, though how accurate that is I'm not entirely sure since simcraft numbers are not very accurate to ingame at the moment if you look at logs, SC posts higher averages over 100k iterations than the rank 1 logs.

Okay. Sucks to be you I guess? I'm enjoying my warrior, and I dont find him less enjoyable because CS isnt up, my dps meter is hidden unless a fight goes to shit and its clearly a dps issue, then I pull it up to see if it was my fault or someone elses.
I dont care about dominating, I dont care as long as Im within 10% of the middle of the pack, that means I'm doing my job, anything beyond that is an outlier and anything below that needs a look from blizzard.

But I get it, we now are shit tier because apparently only getting high numbers doing CS is what makes a class fun to play. I'm just going to excuse myself from any and all spec conversations now, so tired of this dps meter epeen competition bullshit. Not everyone can be top, as long as a spec isnt 20-30% below the rest and not due to user error, that spec is FINE.

Also arms doesnt feel like shit if you just dump that god awful FR trash talent. Yeah sure it pulls nice big numbers, but my god it makes the spec feel lethargic to play.... If you truly want to compete on a mythic level with a melee class there are far better designed ones. Myself I only play arms because a) filthy casual scrub and b) I love how it feels and looks in combat, that is with mortal combo, not FR.

[Supercool]

Even if your meters are hidden, the spec slows to a crawl when Tactician stops proccing, so not sure how that's fun.

Tactician just sucks and has always sucked as a core mechanic.

[Deleted]

I don't think people are mad about FR getting nerfed, that was to be expected. I think it's the way they did it that shows how completely out of touch with their game they are that upsets people. Ignoring numbers completely, they made not only FR arms but ALL arms specs a lot more RNG reliant and frustarting to play. That's _never_ a good design. There were 101 ways to nerf FR yet they managed to pick the one way that would make the gameplay obnoxious, and ultimately gameplay is the core of the game. Not only that but by doing so they nerfed all the other arms specs in the process. A lot of people were fine with investing all their AP in arms because even though FR would get nerfed, it's only one talent. Little did they know Blizzard decided to nerf the entire specialization for no reason

Even if arms was still top DPS, I probably would still ditch arms simply because the clunky gameplay will be unbearable to me. That was definitely not the way to go, if they wanted to nerf the relics they could've buffed base tactician to compensate. This is just messy

[Saiona]

CS is giving me 100-130% increased damage lol so yeah without procs its pretty fucking aids