Britain will veto EU army, says Defence Secretary

[Ulmita]

I know the real reason you want to see NATO gone and Greece protected by the EU, Turkey. At least be honest about it.
A unified EU army will not happen until people see themselves as European Unioners before seeing themselves as German, French, etc.

I see myself as a European Unioner Is that enough?

My first and foremost reason is that it will be a step towards federalizing EU. That's what i really crave. The second motive is seeing NATO disappearing. NATO has served its purpose, its time to let it go. NATO is also pretty much USA's instrument which doesn't fit EU's interests most of the time.

Germany, France and Italy along with Junker are pushing HARD for such army. My gut feeling is that we will see one i am just not sure when exactly. However, we are in the right track.

[Kellhound]

I see myself as a European Unioner Is that enough?

My first and foremost reason is that it will be a step towards federalizing EU. That's what i really crave. The second motive is seeing NATO disappearing. NATO has served its purpose, its time to let it go. NATO is also pretty much USA's instrument which doesn't fit EU's interests most of the time.

Germany, France and Italy along with Junker are pushing HARD for such army. My gut feeling is that we will see one i am just not sure when exactly. However, we are in the right track.

We all know you have a hard time figuring out what you are, but you have clearly been calling yourself Greek FAR more than an European Unioner.

You are trying to put the horse before the cart, and it will not work.

[Ulmita]

We all know you have a hard time figuring out what you are, but you have clearly been calling yourself Greek FAR more than an European Unioner.

You are trying to put the horse before the cart, and it will not work.

As i said, don't worry Kell, EU will be fine. I've also i've been calling my self as a EU nationalist

[Kellhound]

As i said, don't worry Kell, EU will be fine. I've also i've been calling my self as a EU nationalist

I know the EU will be fine, once they get rid of the dead wood at least.

No, you BY FAR call yourself Greek. That is what you portray yourself first and foremost here.

[Ulmita]

I know the EU will be fine, once they get rid of the dead wood at least.

No, you BY FAR call yourself Greek. That is what you portray yourself first and foremost here.

I never call myself Greek here. Please start linking posts. You sound mad and obviously you're trying to stir subject away.
Could you at least let as know why are you angry? I bet 'cause NATO is going bi bi or because i was right and you wrong?

[Deleted]

I know you are clueless about military matters, but really? In C4ISR alone Europe is massively dependent on the US, then there is strategic lift, etc.....

yes because airbus cant build large airplanes.

EU battle groups require NATO support.

No they don't.

An EU army would be needed if NATO dissolved, but until that happens there is no reason for one.

This may come as a shock to you, but a non trivial amount of people would like to leave the US hegemony over Europe.
It is indeed partially the point of creating the EU army.

[Ulmita]

This may come as a shock to you, but a non trivial amount of people would like to leave the US hegemony over Europe.
It is indeed partially the point of creating the EU army.

This frastruates me the most with some American posters in here. They actually think that the universe revolves around them

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Martin Schulz hits back at UK over EU army

Parliament president says Brexit could allow the rest of the EU to seek closer integration.


LONDON — Britain won’t have the power to veto an EU army either before or after Brexit, the president of the European Parliament said Friday during a speech in London.

The idea that the U.K. government could block such a vote was “counterproductive and anyway not possible in this case,” Martin Schulz said, hitting back at U.K. defense secretary Michael Fallon, who said London will resist any attempt to set up “a rival to NATO.”

“In the fields of security and defense policy, although the EU loses a key member state, paradoxically such a separation could give the necessary impulse for a closer integration of the remaining member states,” Schulz told an audience at the London School of Economics, adding that French and German proposals on security integration had been largely endorsed by the EU27 meeting in Bratislavalast week, and were “a clear sign of things to come.”

Fallon told the Times last week he was concerned about any moves towards a common EU military force, stating that: “This is not going to happen.”
But Schulz said he was “not sure how seriously to understand the threats of U.K. vetoes” and urged London to “end this systematic talk of blocking” if it wants to “reset” its relationship with the EU.

On Britain’s path to Brexit, Schulz repeated calls for Article 50 to be triggered “as soon as possible,” warning that further delays could result in the “very difficult” situation of British voters having to elect MEPs for the 2019 European Parliament elections, while still plotting its course out of the Union.
He suggested that Parliament’s decision to appoint former Belgian Prime MinisterGuy Verhofstadt, considered a hardline federalist by London, as its chief Brexit negotiator wasn’t a signal that Parliament would take a “punitive” approach.

However, Schulz echoed the language of European Council President Donald Tusk and European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, insisting there would be no “à la carte menu” of EU privileges for the U.K. after Brexit.


In a strongly-worded statement, he made clear the Parliament would not accept a deal granting the U.K. single market access for goods, capital and services without the free movement of people.
“I refuse to imagine a Europe where lorries and hedge funds are free to cross borders but citizens cannot,” he said. “The Union is a community with a shared destiny, a model of society, not an accountants’ club.”

Schulz was also scathing about Britain’s Leave campaigners, accusing them of telling some “outright lies” during the campaign. He linked the killing of MP Jo Cox, days before the referendum vote, to the fact that the campaign had become “nasty” and said the aggressors in attacks on EU migrants felt “somehow legitimized…by the popular vote.”
Schulz spoke at the LSE a day after meeting U.K Prime Minister Theresa May, Mayor of London Sadiq Khan and Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn.

Juncker told MEPs in Strasbourg last week that he would push for the creation of a single military headquarters for the EU, to “be in charge all together of the protection of our interests.”
Juncker also spoke about such a plan with EU leaders at a recent meeting in Bratislava, to which Britain was not invited.
Maïa de La Baume contributed reporting

Link To article: http://www.politico.eu/article/marti...sa-may-brexit/

This pretty much sums up the speculations about the veto shenanigans. Also, it seems that they are really determined to create the army. Good news.

[PickleballAce]

This frastruates me the most with some American posters in here. They actually think that the universe revolves around them

Given the cringey, jilted-ex-girlfriend-stalking-your-Facebook obsession Euros have with everything that goes on in the United States, I think Americans can be forgiven for operating under the impression that everything revolves around them.

[dribbles]

This frastruates me the most with some American posters in here. They actually think that the universe revolves around them

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Link To article: http://www.politico.eu/article/marti...sa-may-brexit/

This pretty much sums up the speculations about the veto shenanigans. Also, it seems that they are really determined to create the army. Good news.

Martin who? Laughable really, guess you have to be happy with your European leaders after all like North Korea you as a citizen of Europe have no powers to remove them.

Tell me if the UK has no power of veto over an EU army does Lithuania?

"Lithuania's President Dalia Grybauskaite said following her arrival at the informal European Union summit in Bratislava on Friday that a joint European army was inconceivable."

http://www.baltictimes.com/lithuania..._after_brexit/

What about Latvia are they allowed a veto? Their foreign minister said at the same meeting -

"We take a very skeptical view on the idea or creation of an EU army. I really do not see any value for the European army."

How about Poland are they allowed a veto? No?

Estonia, Slovakia, Austria, Ireland? No?

Who is in favour of an EU army, you, drunken junker and martin whatsisname? Ah thats OK it's your German masters idea, so no one else
gets a say. Glad we are on our way out.

[Deleted]

Martin who? Laughable really, guess you have to be happy with your European leaders after all like North Korea you as a citizen of Europe have no powers to remove them.

Tell me if the UK has no power of veto over an EU army does Lithuania?

"Lithuania's President Dalia Grybauskaite said following her arrival at the informal European Union summit in Bratislava on Friday that a joint European army was inconceivable."

http://www.baltictimes.com/lithuania..._after_brexit/

What about Latvia are they allowed a veto? Their foreign minister said at the same meeting -

"We take a very skeptical view on the idea or creation of an EU army. I really do not see any value for the European army."

How about Poland are they allowed a veto? No?

Estonia, Slovakia, Austria, Ireland? No?

Who is in favour of an EU army, you, drunken junker and martin whatsisname? Ah thats OK it's your German masters idea, so no one else
gets a say. Glad we are on our way out.

Ah, Lithuania. Sure they can be easily bought with a bag of shiny marbles.
Americans have set up bases in their countries using shiny marbles Ahah.
Yeah it's ok.
I liked your comparison to North Korea though. You better get ready for the incoming war mate. Come on hit the gym, buy some guns, get a bunker going... you know... be active about it!

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I agree with you though.
Martin Schultz is a dick and always will be.

[Kellhound]

yes because airbus cant build large airplanes.


No they don't.

This may come as a shock to you, but a non trivial amount of people would like to leave the US hegemony over Europe.
It is indeed partially the point of creating the EU army.

If the A400M is any indication, Airbus has a long way to go to build anything other than a heavy tactical transport in large numbers.

The EU Battlegroups are very limited in capability with minimal ability to support themselves by and large, except for the UK, German, and Italian/Spanish rotations. EU countries just lack the transports needed, especially w/o the UK.

And a non trivial amount of people would prefer for that to not happen as well.

[dribbles]

I liked your comparison to North Korea though. You better get ready for the incoming war mate.

North Korea wields a far superior military than most EU countries but is a bit short of cash, maybe Europe could hire Kim Jong Un as their Military Advisor, he shares much in common with the current ideals of leaders in Brussels.

That Martin Schaltz guy is just salty by name, salty by nature after being rejected by the brexiteers.

[Deleted]

North Korea wields a far superior military than most EU countries but is a bit short of cash, maybe Europe could hire Kim Jong Un as their Military Advisor, he shares much in common with the current ideals of leaders in Brussels.

That Martin Schaltz guy is just salty by name, salty by nature after being rejected by the brexiteers.

There, before you continue rambling, grab this shovel, you'll dig much faster.

[Deleted]

The EU Battlegroups are very limited in capability with minimal ability to support themselves by and large, except for the UK, German, and Italian/Spanish rotations. EU countries just lack the transports needed, especially w/o the UK.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

[Kellhound]

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

Airlift capacity, C4ISR capability, maritime lift capacity, etc.

[Ulmita]

Martin who? Laughable really, guess you have to be happy with your European leaders after all like North Korea you as a citizen of Europe have no powers to remove them.

Tell me if the UK has no power of veto over an EU army does Lithuania?

"Lithuania's President Dalia Grybauskaite said following her arrival at the informal European Union summit in Bratislava on Friday that a joint European army was inconceivable."

http://www.baltictimes.com/lithuania..._after_brexit/

What about Latvia are they allowed a veto? Their foreign minister said at the same meeting -

"We take a very skeptical view on the idea or creation of an EU army. I really do not see any value for the European army."

How about Poland are they allowed a veto? No?

Estonia, Slovakia, Austria, Ireland? No?

Who is in favour of an EU army, you, drunken junker and martin whatsisname? Ah thats OK it's your German masters idea, so no one else
gets a say. Glad we are on our way out.

German, French, Italian, (aka 90% of EUs GDP) and then Greece, Spain, Portugal, Czechs, Hungary

This is a done deal. The skeptic countries (Poland and Slovakia) will be pressured tremendously from within Europe and even NATO (in case of Poland) if its needed.

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Wolfgang Schäuble offers Boris Johnson lesson on EU law


Claim of ‘no automatic trade-off’ between free movement and single market slapped down




German finance minister Wolfgang Schäuble has slapped down Boris Johnson, offering to give him lessons on the EU after Britain’s foreign secretary dismissed key EU principles as “baloney”.

In the latest spat over Brexit, Mr Schäuble responded to an assertion by Mr Johnson that there was no “automatic trade-off” between future British access to the EU’s single market and the UK’s acceptance of free movement of goods, services, capital and labour.
“We’ll happily send her majesty’s foreign minister a copy of the Lisbon treaty,” Mr Schäuble joked at a news conference in Berlin after exchanging a weary glance with Michel Sapin, his French counterpart sitting nearby. “He can then read about the fact that there’s a certain connection between the single market and the four freedoms. At a pinch, I can talk about it in English.”



During a visit to New York this week, Mr Johnson described as “complete baloney” the link between British market access and acceptance of the EU principle of free movement of labour.
Mr Sapin said the EU’s so-called four freedoms are “indivisible” and must be respected.
Making clear his disdain for Mr Johnson, who led the campaign to take Britain out of the EU, Mr Schäuble said he and his French colleague “looked at each other because we are both accustomed to having a high degree of respect for foreign ministers”.


The rebuff was the second in two days for Mr Johnson, who was attending the UN General Assembly in New York. On Thursday he said that UK was looking to start formal Brexit talks in early 2017, only for Downing Street to say Prime Minister Theresa May was not committed to any timeframe.
The exchanges highlight the high political tensions surrounding Brexit. Germany has cast itself as close ally of the UK in Europe. But Berlin is anxious that the Brexit process — and the passions inflamed by political debate — should not create fissures among the remaining 27 members.

Link to article: https://www.ft.com/content/3b1a3c3e-...0-8ec15fb462f4

I guess that shuts down the claims of some certain British posters in here. You want access to the single market? You have to play by the rules lads.

[Mayhem]

On Thursday he said that UK was looking to start formal Brexit talks in early 2017, only for Downing Street to say Prime Minister Theresa May was not committed to any timeframe.

Wait, wait, wait, but according to Kalis it´s certainly going to be early 2017!

[Ulmita]

Wait, wait, wait, but according to Kalis it´s certainly going to be early 2017!

Mehh, i don't think anyone knows with certainty whats going on. I hate to see Britain leaving and i hate even more if they left on bad terms and / or have an antagonistic relationship with them. I do agree they should have some privileges over countries that never joined, but giving access to single market w/t them allowing migration from within EU should be a red line.

[Deleted]

If the A400M is any indication, Airbus has a long way to go to build anything other than a heavy tactical transport in large numbers.

Who would Airbus sell that 'strategic' airlift too? Unless the definitions have been expanded since i last checked, its either an Antonov (something) or a boeing globemaster.
Somehow i think airbus would see no point in trying to fill those orders.

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Wait, wait, wait, but according to Kalis it´s certainly going to be early 2017!

well the EU will get very pissed if notice is not handed in before may 2017, as that would mean that there would have to be uk MEP's elected (again).

[dribbles]

I guess that shuts down the claims of some certain British posters in here. You want access to the single market? You have to play by the rules lads.

No only the EU clings to the misplaced belief that the UK wants access to the single market, it really is not fussed. Above anything else the UK will have control of its borders, no deal is better than a bad deal. I see Salty Martin took his last opportunity to travel visa free to the UK at the weekend, must be tough him knowing as a tourist 17 million people just voted that you are a tosser.