MM and BM single target

[Deleted]

iam not following him iam just reading topics on the forum about hunters and i run in to him being an ass to other people. forums are to ask questions,debate and talk about things. in this case hunters and in a lot of topics iam just reading i run in to him being rude or an ass to people. if he cant have normal conversations with people how about he just doesnt reply and shut up? instead of being rude to everyone.

[Wilfire]

So far we only have anecdotal reports of MM hunters being "top performers" and a "pro hunter" that has been wrong numerous times before spewing dogmatic statements left and right without bothering to debate. Until the MM circlejerk actually bothers to explain in what way MM is mechanically superior on Renferal, especially when they have to a 1) place pools away from the raid 2) stack on Renferal for the push away phase and 3) run across to another platform, I suggest everyone just tries both specs on different bosses and figures out which spec performs better on which encounter.

[Deleted]

Well since you wanted some real raiding data, I'll give you some.

Last night I did Heroic Elerethe and Ursoc as BM. In the raid were also 4 other MM hunters.

All of them excluding one, who is a more casual player were doing a lot more dps than me on both trash and bosses. On our Ursoc kill 3 of the top 5 dps were MM hunters with dps up to 300k. While I was out of the top 10 with about 200k.

Now some pointers here. BM can pull a lot more than 200k. The MM hunters were using 1300 agility flasks and I was not, they were using deadly grace potions and I was not, I was also specced with Stampede as I just came off Mythic+ and forgot to respec(fuck blizzard btw) and they were also higher item level than me, and I can't afford to buy a decent neck enchant.

With that said, even if I fine tune everything, flasks, potions, enchants, killer cobra, hitting all my cooldowns through the whole fight perfectly I still don't see myself consistently doing any more than around 250-260k. Unless I get one of the good legendaries, but fuck me that's never going to happen.

So there you have it. Maybe the top 1% BM hunters in the world with the best legendaries and enough gold to buy enchants, pots, flasks etc can do the dps of the casual MM hunters of my casual guild, while competitive MM hunters with the same conditions will always do more.

At least for now. Maybe once we max out our artifact things will change, but I don't understand the game good enough to guess that.

And no, my gear is not bad, I've got like 85% mastery, maybe not optimal, but pretty decent and my haste is not bad too. That's just the reality for now. Who knows what will happen later on though, in any case I don't like how MM plays so I'll be sticking to BM.

[DocSavageFan]

A ST buff for BM would be nice imo....damage feels a little low right now.

[K4sk]

BM is basically for bads/casuals or someone who is new to the hunter class. The rotation is also braindead and the spec basically plays itself - Sorry to be blunt BM boys.

MM does superior AOE and superior single target. There's literally no reason to ever go BM unless you need to bring heroism or want to have 2 fancy looking pets.

[Deleted]

Well since you wanted some real raiding data, I'll give you some.

Last night I did Heroic Elerethe and Ursoc as BM. In the raid were also 4 other MM hunters.

All of them excluding one, who is a more casual player were doing a lot more dps than me on both trash and bosses. On our Ursoc kill 3 of the top 5 dps were MM hunters with dps up to 300k. While I was out of the top 10 with about 200k.

Now some pointers here. BM can pull a lot more than 200k. The MM hunters were using 1300 agility flasks and I was not, they were using deadly grace potions and I was not, I was also specced with Stampede as I just came off Mythic+ and forgot to respec(fuck blizzard btw) and they were also higher item level than me, and I can't afford to buy a decent neck enchant.

With that said, even if I fine tune everything, flasks, potions, enchants, killer cobra, hitting all my cooldowns through the whole fight perfectly I still don't see myself consistently doing any more than around 250-260k. Unless I get one of the good legendaries, but fuck me that's never going to happen.

So there you have it. Maybe the top 1% BM hunters in the world with the best legendaries and enough gold to buy enchants, pots, flasks etc can do the dps of the casual MM hunters of my casual guild, while competitive MM hunters with the same conditions will always do more.

At least for now. Maybe once we max out our artifact things will change, but I don't understand the game good enough to guess that.

And no, my gear is not bad, I've got like 85% mastery, maybe not optimal, but pretty decent and my haste is not bad too. That's just the reality for now. Who knows what will happen later on though, in any case I don't like how MM plays so I'll be sticking to BM.

Yeah but if your like me you went left side for aoe talents mainly.. i really want to know what kind of ST increase titans thunder gives..

I would lose 5% on KC.. 6% On BW (countered by inc buff)

Gain titans thunder.. 9% on cobra shot.. 3 seconds on aotw

Right now i feel it would put me from mid tier to just under MM and Dh

[Deleted]

BM is basically for bads/casuals or someone who is new to the hunter class. The rotation is also braindead and the spec basically plays itself - Sorry to be blunt BM boys.

MM does superior AOE and superior single target. There's literally no reason to ever go BM unless you need to bring heroism or want to have 2 fancy looking pets.

Other than the fact i've beaten every MM hunter i've grouped with except one guy on both single and multi target as BM. I totally agree with you.

Not running with a mage/shammy? I got a pet for that.

No Bres or the only Bres dies? I got a pet for that.

Mobs that heal and people suck at interrupting? I got a pet for that.

Everyones rotation is brain dead these days. You'll notice a huge difference with someone who knows what to do with BM next to someone who doesn't, like any spec.

[Alomega]

BM is basically for bads/casuals or someone who is new to the hunter class. The rotation is also braindead and the spec basically plays itself - Sorry to be blunt BM boys.

MM does superior AOE and superior single target. There's literally no reason to ever go BM unless you need to bring heroism or want to have 2 fancy looking pets.

Yes, cause we all know the 5 buttons you have to press (2 of which you almost always cast on cooldown), in MM is so next level... :/ The only thing that makes MM "harder" to play is positioning. Unless you like pulling half the dungeon with nearly half of your abilities. And even then, a monkey can figure it out after a few tries.

[Deleted]

BM is basically for bads/casuals or someone who is new to the hunter class. The rotation is also braindead and the spec basically plays itself - Sorry to be blunt BM boys.

MM does superior AOE and superior single target. There's literally no reason to ever go BM unless you need to bring heroism or want to have 2 fancy looking pets.

That's a ridiculous statement, considering all classes and specs got simplified. MM is not harder to play, in fact it could be considered easier especially in EN. At least with BM there's some timing involved as you're rotating on cooldowns and stacking them is preferred. There are split second decisions to be made there.

On the other hand MM only has to worry about movement and executes everything on cooldown. It's one of the reasons I don't like it. Because it doesn't feel fun waiting on marked shot to proc and even if it doesn't proc you just continue with your rotation consisting of SW into Aimed Shots, and Barrage on cooldown. Then your marked shot procs right after you reapplied vulnerable with SW and you sit there feeling stupid. Yeah, complex and exciting...

Snootylol, there's no doubt in my mind, that the path to Titan's Thunder will greatly improve BM dps, also yeah, going for Killer Cobra instead of Stampede is mandatory for raids, I just didn't have a tome to respec and we generally had enough dps to kill Ursoc. We may not be that far behind MM if we consider what we stand to receive from our artifact.

[Aldare]

That's a ridiculous statement, considering all classes and specs got simplified. MM is not harder to play, in fact it could be considered easier especially in EN. At least with BM there's some timing involved as you're rotating on cooldowns and stacking them is preferred. There are split second decisions to be made there.

On the other hand MM only has to worry about movement and executes everything on cooldown. It's one of the reasons I don't like it. Because it doesn't feel fun waiting on marked shot to proc and even if it doesn't proc you just continue with your rotation consisting of SW into Aimed Shots, and Barrage on cooldown. Then your marked shot procs right after you reapplied vulnerable with SW and you sit there feeling stupid. Yeah, complex and exciting...

Snootylol, there's no doubt in my mind, that the path to Titan's Thunder will greatly improve BM dps, also yeah, going for Killer Cobra instead of Stampede is mandatory for raids, I just didn't have a tome to respec and we generally had enough dps to kill Ursoc. We may not be that far behind MM if we consider what we stand to receive from our artifact.

As has been posted a few times already, in terms of numbers BM and MM aren't that far off each other. Like you say, it just takes BM longer to get there as it requires a bigger Artifact Power investment, which players haven't had time to get prior to raids opening. The main reason why MM is preferred for Emerald Nightmare is mechanical though. The same thing that can make MM really hard to play without making your tank ragequit in a dungeon (Sidewinders and Barrage) really shines in a raid environment where you are able to DPS pretty much the entire room while maintaining full damage on your priority target. This is something BM won't ever be able to do as it can only deal damage in the area immediately surrounding it's pet, and suffers from pet travel time whenever it has to change focus.

On fights where you can stay on one target like Nythendra and Ursoc I have no doubt BM will catch up with MM once we have more Artifact Power to spend.

[Azortharion]

So far we only have anecdotal reports of MM hunters being "top performers" and a "pro hunter" that has been wrong numerous times before spewing dogmatic statements left and right without bothering to debate. Until the MM circlejerk actually bothers to explain in what way MM is mechanically superior on Renferal, especially when they have to a 1) place pools away from the raid 2) stack on Renferal for the push away phase and 3) run across to another platform, I suggest everyone just tries both specs on different bosses and figures out which spec performs better on which encounter.

Anecdotal reports? The data is out there, just because you don't know where the fuck to find it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Also, wrong "numerous times before" about what?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10/

Browse at your leisure, the proof is in the pudding.

How the fuck is BM better at running between platforms? You can't reach the boss anyway.

It's superior because it deals more damage, as you'll find in the statistics.

Beast Mastery and Marksmanship aren't even "close", they are miles apart, it's like playing BM in HFC. Which no one did, and rightly so.

[Deleted]

I just wonder where SVv is in this situation
Also there will be more "Tunning"
And what i hate in MM is the tight use of his talents one nerfhammer there and the spec will not worth for anything beside superspread adds

[Azortharion]

"There will be more tuning", the official motto of the crowd who can't accept that Marksmanship is the raiding spec this tier, jesus fucking christ.

[Deleted]

Who says that i do not accept it.I simply do not like how its designed.I dont like the fact that we got 2 supeoverpowered talents and rest are just useless crap there
Even the change in normal vulnerability for 7.1 will gona be useless over Patient sniper unless talent dint lose the extra 50% damage or Normal Vulnerability did not stack up to 150%
Also no mater who does most ST damage output frome these 2 specs MM will have advantage because BM pet, i already tryed BM some bosses are just impossible because these adds spwans 300 miles away but his brust have prety good potential to be used on bosses like Ursoc for example sadly 5% BW buff isnt that big upgrade and i hope for more because after all i have plenty of AP invested there anyway

[Meleti]

No one benefits from shitty debate and shitty questions.

This should be the class forum's motto.

[GT4]

Who says that i do not accept it.I simply do not like how its designed.I dont like the fact that we got 2 supeoverpowered talents and rest are just useless crap there
Even the change in normal vulnerability for 7.1 will gona be useless over Patient sniper unless talent dint lose the extra 50% damage or Normal Vulnerability did not stack up to 150%
Also no mater who does most ST damage output frome these 2 specs MM will have advantage because BM pet, i already tryed BM some bosses are just impossible because these adds spwans 300 miles away but his brust have prety good potential to be used on bosses like Ursoc for example sadly 5% BW buff isnt that big upgrade and i hope for more because after all i have plenty of AP invested there anyway

The last part is your own fault. Blizzard has mentioned previously they'll try to keep the order of specs the same when hotfixing things. You chose to invest into a spec that Blizzard has indirectly said they'll try to keep the inferior spec for raiding.

[Xarathan]

This thread is my favorite thus far

[Deleted]

world of logs, noxxic etc tell to just play what you want, blizzard will eventually balance things out. so stay comfy on your favorite ;-)

[Fiftyonred]

No one benefits from shitty debate and shitty questions.

Same goes for shitty answers and rude remarks. This isn't serious business dude, it's just a game.

[Sperrow]

Same goes for shitty answers and rude remarks. This isn't serious business dude, it's just a game.

Then why you are so triggered?