[Speculation] I wonder how the Nightborne will regard the Night Elves post Elisande

[Friendlyimmolation]

Tyrande honestly wouldn't need any family relation with Elisande. If Blizzard even attempted to say so, it would be out of their butts. There isn't anything to point in that direction.

But nightborne becoming one with the Night elves and such! COMPLETE INTERGRATION

[Aeluron Lightsong]

But nightborne becoming one with the Night elves and such! COMPLETE INTERGRATION

It could still happen(It would be far more interesting) but I suspect nothing too grand will happen and they'll stay in Suramar :>

[Mehrunes]

But nightborne becoming one with the Night elves and such! COMPLETE INTERGRATION

So Nightborne becoming one with themselves? I'm confused.

[Zulkhan]

What if Elisande is Tyrande's sister, have you not noticed the similarity in the name?

If Illidan and Malfurion can be brothers while bearing names that share zero similarity, Elisande and Tyrande can easily be unrelated despite said names sounding vaguely similar.

Besides, it makes no fucking sense. Elisande was a Highborne, no way in hell she's so closely related to a commoner.

There is a difference between story subtly, And things you come up with because you think it would be good idea.

This should be printed on Mace's/Ravenmoon's fridges.

So Nightborne becoming one with themselves? I'm confused.

Well, apparently some nightborne rebelled against Elisande alongside night elves that apparently lived all this time in Suramar. Which means nightborne are very night elven but needed a mysterious sect of night elves alongside them to cement the night elvenness.

[Mace]

W3 manual account has been completely retconned.

until they say it's not the case, I'd take it as canon.

Mace, she grew up playing with the Stormrage boys, running in the forests, learning to hunt and wield a bow. We do know of her parents -- she lost them at a young age, just like the Stormrage twins. None of this says "Highborne". Highborne considered themselves above everyone and separated themselves from the rest of night elf society. They focused exclusively on the arcane and would not have allowed one of their little girls to go romping around in the woods like Tyrande did. It would have been scandalous to them.

I have my suspicions though. None of what you say disproves or excludes the possibility. Tyrande's history is often only recounted in relation to the Stormrage twins, we have yet to hear her own fuller story of which that could play a role. Your parents dying is not exclusive to non-highborne. Running around the forests, learning to hunt is not exclusive to non-highborne - Azshara if I recall right somewhere is said to have been an excellent huntress. And children playing - children play with each other - they don't care about class, background, skin colour or even race, and friendships can easily form across social backgrounds as well as cultures, races or even species.

But let's not argue whether speculation or opinion is right or wrong - you think no, I think possible. Furthermore, they could be sisters with or Aunt and niece. Remember if one person is raised to highborne, the family isn't, only her offspring hence forth would be highborne, and Azshara was always grabbing talent from amongst the night elf populace to call up, despite thier loathing for them, all night elves would have been over the moon at such a distinction.. isn't or wasn't that the pride of the highborne? That they were chosen by the beloved Queen.

- - - Updated - - -

Tyrande honestly wouldn't need any family relation with Elisande. If Blizzard even attempted to say so, it would be out of their butts. There isn't anything to point in that direction.

Where do you think all the lore comes from? What indication was there for any of it? You create stuff. As and how you please.

[Stormspellz]

I would agree that the Nightborne, post affiliation with the Legion, definitely have more in common with the Sin'dorei and the High Elves than their Kaldorei kin. Though they've yet to truly meet or interact with the Shen'dralar Highborne remnant who they may have much in common with both physically and thematically. I can't imagine the Kaldorei being very accepting of either the Moon Guard holdouts or the Shal'dorei Nightborne contingent - their arcane practices and history would be a pretty large stumbling block, even if the Night Elves are making strides into re-accepting part of their Highborne kin.

On a political level it would be wise for the Kaldorei to extend an olive branch to the Shal'dorei - if they find more in common with the Sin'dorei (and both Liadrin and Rommath are far more accepting and tolerant of the Nightborne rebellion leadership than Tyrande in the 7.1 material) then that will upset the balance of power against the Kaldorei and the Alliance in general. It would behoove the Alliance leadership to empower a diplomat with more tact than Tyrande has displayed thus far.

Lets be honest here tyrande is 100% not the character we saw in war3 for no real reason other then simple bad writing.

[Mace]

There is a difference between story subtly, And things you come up with because you think it would be good idea.

yes, there is, and?

[Zulkhan]

Where do you think all the lore comes from? What indication was there for any of it? You create stuff. As and how you please.

You must have missed the point. The point is that you're (once again) guessing stuff on thin air. Which means is nothing worth discussing as long there's the lack of anything at least implying, hinting or subtly suggesting what you claim. A vague similarity in their names mean pretty much nothing.

- - - Updated - - -

Lets be honest here tyrande is 100% not the character we saw in war3 for no real reason other then simple bad writing.

What makes you think that "WC3 Tyrande" (it's hilarious but let's go along with it) would act any different from how she's acting now in regards of the Nightborne?

yes, there is, and?

...and your "theory" sits on the latter side of the statement, not the first.

[Aucald]

Lets be honest here tyrande is 100% not the character we saw in war3 for no real reason other then simple bad writing.

I guess my question would be "which Tyrande from Warcraft 3?" Her incarnation in the original RTS is more akin to how she acts in Legion - proud and arrogant, very sure of herself and her opinions, and prone to gainsaying others and acting as she alone thinks is best. In "Warcraft 3: the Frozen Throne" she seems cowed and far less argumentative, following in Malfurion's lead and being disdainful of Illidan (despite exulting in freeing him in the original game). In the course of WoW Tyrande has kind of vacillated between these two personalities.

[Mace]

Lets be honest here tyrande is 100% not the character we saw in war3 for no real reason other then simple bad writing.

That's a bit sad, but I also feel people might not understand her character well, or as you say, it could be bad writing. I try to use that as last possible excuse after exhausting all other possible explanation.

On another note, why are we judging the relationship between two entire peoples based on one persons cool initial reactions? I wouldn't over-read Tyrande's initial lines as some sort of great schism that needs an olive branch. We already have a number of examples of quite positive night elf/nightborne interactions. And Tyrande certainly does not speak for speak for all night elves, though her words carry weight, she is not a dicatator, nor are they slaves to her. Furthermore, there are several groups of night elves. Broken Isle groups are not affliated with the Northern Kalimdor group either.

Just because Tyrande is upset and pissed off at the situation also doesn't mean all night elves feel that way too, especially as we've already been shown otherwise.

- - - Updated - - -

I guess my question would be "which Tyrande from Warcraft 3?" Her incarnation in the original RTS is more akin to how she acts in Legion - proud and arrogant, very sure of herself and her opinions, and prone to gainsaying others and acting as she alone thinks is best. In "Warcraft 3: the Frozen Throne" she seems cowed and far less argumentative, following in Malfurion's lead and being disdainful of Illidan (despite exulting in freeing him in the original game). In the course of WoW Tyrande has kind of vacillated between these two personalities.

oo.. maybe one personality is the goddess, and the other Tyrande - maybe they are being literal when they call her the voice of Elune... ?

[Tenjen]

does anyone see the problem with bringing Illidan back to life with a prefixed well of power in proximity to him?

that might be a big problem.

[Mehrunes]

You must have missed the point. The point is that you're (once again) guessing stuff on thin air. Which means is nothing worth discussing as long there's the lack of anything at least implying, hinting or subtly suggesting what you claim. A vague similarity in their names mean pretty much nothing.

Wait, are you implying Khadgar and khaleesi aren't related? I'm not sure if I can take such wild claims seriously.

[Enthralled]

does anyone see the problem with bringing Illidan back to life with a prefixed well of power in proximity to him?

that might be a big problem.

Or it might be awesome.

(And I say that in a non-fangirly way. I mean awesome for the story.)

- - - Updated - - -

until they say it's not the case, I'd take it as canon.



I have my suspicions though. None of what you say disproves or excludes the possibility. Tyrande's history is often only recounted in relation to the Stormrage twins, we have yet to hear her own fuller story of which that could play a role. Your parents dying is not exclusive to non-highborne. Running around the forests, learning to hunt is not exclusive to non-highborne - Azshara if I recall right somewhere is said to have been an excellent huntress. And children playing - children play with each other - they don't care about class, background, skin colour or even race, and friendships can easily form across social backgrounds as well as cultures, races or even species.

But let's not argue whether speculation or opinion is right or wrong - you think no, I think possible. Furthermore, they could be sisters with or Aunt and niece. Remember if one person is raised to highborne, the family isn't, only her offspring hence forth would be highborne, and Azshara was always grabbing talent from amongst the night elf populace to call up, despite thier loathing for them, all night elves would have been over the moon at such a distinction.. isn't or wasn't that the pride of the highborne? That they were chosen by the beloved Queen.

Where do you think all the lore comes from? What indication was there for any of it? You create stuff. As and how you please.

All right, Mace, just whatever. I think, though, that your "suspicions" are fanfiction, plain and simple. That's not to say they'd make bad fanfiction if you wrote them down in story format and posted them on fanfiction.net. But trying to pass them off as real lore because you have "suspicions" honestly doesn't cut it for me when I am discussing story.

Where do you think all the lore comes from? What indication was there for any of it? You create stuff. As and how you please.

Blizzard has the power to do this and to say it's canon. None of us do.

But I think I'm speaking to a brick wall so ...

[Aucald]

I tend to view the Warcraft universe's lore, and the examination of it, in three distinct categories I think everyone can roughly agree with:

1. Canon - these are facts established directly by the Blizzard developers or their authorized agents (e.g. novel authors, comic book writers, etc.) They are able to be sourced and attributed, and serve as reference materials for any discussions or debate.

2. Theories - the bulk of what we generally work with, based on available canon and/or understandable relationships between cause and event. A theory isn't canon but it is typically based on canon, taking the form of either a supposition or opinion supported we elements we know or can easily point to.

3. Fanfiction - ideas or hypotheses not supported by canon or running counter to it would be fanfiction. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - covering a wide cross-section of "what if" types of musing and/or alternate continuity takes on themes or occurrences in the Warcraft universe. Fanfiction is only a bad thing when it is presented as canon, or a theory (in the cases where it runs obviously counter to what is already known).

Fanfiction should obviously be presented as what it is, in the form of a outward disclaimer stating the intent to entertain or to muse on alternative scenarios. Theories should be presented with words like "in my opinion" or "my take on it is," phrases that indicate the person is taking known quantities to a somewhat logical conclusion or matching them to an understandable premise. Canon is canon - just cite your source(s) on request, or ahead of time if you think the line of discussion is going to be controversial or rebutted.

[Zulkhan]

I tend to view the Warcraft universe's lore, and the examination of it, in three distinct categories I think everyone can roughly agree with:

1. Canon - these are facts established directly by the Blizzard developers or their authorized agents (e.g. novel authors, comic book writers, etc.) They are able to be sourced and attributed, and serve as reference materials for any discussions or debate.

2. Theories - the bulk of what we generally work with, based on available canon and/or understandable relationships between cause and event. A theory isn't canon but it is typically based on canon, taking the form of either a supposition or opinion supported we elements we know or can easily point to.

3. Fanfiction - ideas or hypotheses not supported by canon or running counter to it would be fanfiction. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - covering a wide cross-section of "what if" types of musing and/or alternate continuity takes on themes or occurrences in the Warcraft universe. Fanfiction is only a bad thing when it is presented as canon, or a theory (in the cases where it runs obviously counter to what is already known).

Fanfiction should obviously be presented as what it is, in the form of a outward disclaimer stating the intent to entertain or to muse on alternative scenarios. Theories should be presented with words like "in my opinion" or "my take on it is," phrases that indicate the person is taking known quantities to a somewhat logical conclusion or matching them to an understandable premise. Canon is canon - just cite your source(s) on request, or ahead of time if you think the line of discussion is going to be controversial or rebutted.

I think we should copy-paste this within the main post of a closed thread, put on sticky in this section and with a huge "READ THIS BEFORE POSTING" kind of disclaimer. It would make wonders.

[Enthralled]

I think we should copy-paste this within the main post of a closed thread, put on sticky in this section and with a huge "READ THIS BEFORE POSTING" kind of disclaimer. It would make wonders.

Agreed, especially about the stickied part. I know I'd start linking it frequently if that were to happen. Maybe too frequently.

[Friendlyimmolation]

yes, there is, and?

So stop fanwanking all over the page and then say it could happen "because suspicions"

[Wildmoon]

Well, if I am a night elf I would not regard the nightborne too well. Not only they are addicted but they refused to help fight the legion when everyone was risking everything in WotA.

[Mace]

So stop fanwanking all over the page and then say it could happen "because suspicions"

you mean expressing my speculation/opinion on a speculation thread I begin - and you want to give me grief for it...right

[Combatbutler]

Well, if I am a night elf I would not regard the nightborne too well. Not only they are addicted but they refused to help fight the legion when everyone was risking everything in WotA.

Which is precisely why Tyrande doesn't like them, which is awesome, I missed this attitude.