I'm sorry but not being able to do the two Artifact Quests in LFR is bullshit.

[Aeula]

the nightborne quest is 1 run, the other one is a skin ONLY and that one is the one that requires runs, btw there is a skin that requires keystone 10... goodluck with that

And to get that 15 keystone tint I'd need to get the raiding version first. So that tint isn't even on my radar. I don't care which colour I get, I just want the model. If I could I'd get the world boss tint and be done with it, but I can't until I've done this fucking questline.

[lazorexplosion]

I'm not sure how Blizzard could make them more relevant to people who dislike challenge? (I guess thats the opposite of the people you are talking about) You can already queue for them, and get the same gear that organized groups get. What else is to do on that front? Blizzard did what they stated, and made them more relevant.

Blizzard have already had good systems - eg. valor in WOTLK

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Blizzard have already had good systems - eg. valor in WOTLK

That has nothing to do with what we are talking about...

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Sorry, but you really come across like you have a reading comprehension problem. I know you're just trying to harp on about your point, but I've said multiple times that while I like the skin, I don't care about it enough to do that particular content.

This game is based around having different sorts of content to appeal to different sorts of people. PVP, casual PVE, progressive PVE, collecting, etc.
"I'm sorry you don't feel like doing things" is a completely stupid argument considering the game is INTENDED that it has content that appeals to different players, and you don't need to do it all.
And that's part of why it was disappointing when this quest/skin appeared to be intended for a more casual PVE crowd and wasn't.

There's a huge difference in doing 2 mythics (a choice I sort of agree with, to get people to try and see if they like them or not,) and doing a pug normal raid over, and over, and OVER again.

And there are different tints for different types of play. I'm sorry that this one just so happens to require NM raiding.

[Sunaka]

its just brian-afk mode.

Damn that Brian.

[snackfeat]

Don't know if this have been posted yet, can't be arsed to check.

With the opening of the first wing of the Emerald Nightmare in Raid Finder difficulty this week, we wanted to mention that the quest items for Essence of Power and In Nightmares do not drop in LFR. The description for these quests will be updated with an upcoming patch and they are meant to be completed on normal difficulty or higher.

https://us.battle.net/support/en/art...ntent=solution

[lazorexplosion]

That has nothing to do with what we are talking about...

WOTLK kept dungeons relevant, accessible and rewarding. The current structure has separate tiers of dungeons - accessible but not rewarding or relevant and rewarding and relevant but not accessible. That is obviously inferior.

[Jtbrig7390]

Don't know if this have been posted yet, can't be arsed to check.

https://us.battle.net/support/en/art...ntent=solution

Ya it got posted along with the details about pathfinder being able to be finished in LFR.

[Auxora]

One thing I will say though is that normal isn't quite as joke easy as some of the folks have said, to the point that it would be a cakewalk to pug it. The fights aren't super-hard at all, but you might be overestimating pugs. Even the simplest raid fights give pugs trouble. And having done it myself and also watching streams of raid guilds, I saw fairly decent guilds that still wiped on normal. Not on the easier fights like Ursoc, but on some of the others. Still though I fully agree that the best rewards should be limited to normal+ raiding, just saying that normal pugging wouldn't be as easy as some have stated. It's bad enough as-is that you can get up to 850 gear from simple 5 minute wq's and 860-865 gear just from tagging the weekly world boss, and those could be done with almost no effort at all.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

WOTLK kept dungeons relevant, accessible and rewarding. The current structure has separate tiers of dungeons - accessible but not rewarding or relevant and rewarding and relevant but not accessible. That is obviously inferior.

False, they are all accessible.

[Raziella]

That has nothing to do with what we are talking about...

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And there are different tints for different types of play. I'm sorry that this one just so happens to require NM raiding.

I think you're confusing "tint" with "skin." There's a lot of tints gated behind certain skin acquisition, and that's what people have been frustrated about, because they could get a tint, but not be able to use it.
Again, read all the way through what people are saying...?

Anyways, I'm super happy they clarified the Pathfinder issue, and hopefully they don't go back on it.

Ultimately, my biggest concern after doing a long quest chain that ended in an unannounced normal raid - when all these sorts of quests were doable in LFR prior to this one, mind you - was the sinking feeling that after all the hard work put into it, Pathfinder would be blocked behind content in the same way.
Pathfinder is already an insane amount of work, some of which we don't even know about yet, and adding that sort of content would be a kick in the nards after all the time put in.

And flying is as much, if not more, of a benefit to more "casual" playstyles than to "elite" or normal raiding ones.
I completely stopped doing things I liked such as pet collecting because of it.

[FelPlague]

And to get that 15 keystone tint I'd need to get the raiding version first. So that tint isn't even on my radar. I don't care which colour I get, I just want the model. If I could I'd get the world boss tint and be done with it, but I can't until I've done this fucking questline.

so you also want mythic only gear to drop in lfr too right? cause thats basicly the same thing, you want acsess to al the weapon looks in soloable content

[lazorexplosion]

False, they are all accessible.

How delusional are you? Do you not understand that there's a very good reason LFR gets something like four times as much use than even normal?

[FelPlague]

WOTLK kept dungeons relevant, accessible and rewarding. The current structure has separate tiers of dungeons - accessible but not rewarding or relevant and rewarding and relevant but not accessible. That is obviously inferior.

you couldent do the Toc unless you had a certin ilvl, and you couldent do the icc dungeons unless you did a attunement
also most of wrath you couldent even que, you had to make a group!

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Don't know if this have been posted yet, can't be arsed to check.



https://us.battle.net/support/en/art...ntent=solution

OMFG a cosmetic item is locked behind doing *GASP* NORMAL raid!?!??!!? what kinda madness is this!? its worse then the moose mount being locked behind heroic archimonde, any mythic set of gear or mounts being locked behind mythic bosses, or titles being locked behind bosses! this is the most horrid thing in all of wow, nuke it, nuke it from orbit!

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I think you're confusing "tint" with "skin." There's a lot of tints gated behind certain skin acquisition, and that's what people have been frustrated about, because they could get a tint, but not be able to use it.
Again, read all the way through what people are saying...?

Anyways, I'm super happy they clarified the Pathfinder issue, and hopefully they don't go back on it.

Ultimately, my biggest concern after doing a long quest chain that ended in an unannounced normal raid - when all these sorts of quests were doable in LFR prior to this one, mind you - was the sinking feeling that after all the hard work put into it, Pathfinder would be blocked behind content in the same way.
Pathfinder is already an insane amount of work, some of which we don't even know about yet, and adding that sort of content would be a kick in the nards after all the time put in.

And flying is as much, if not more, of a benefit to more "casual" playstyles than to "elite" or normal raiding ones.
I completely stopped doing things I liked such as pet collecting because of it.

I'm not confusing anything at all. You have other skin/tint options. Some are gated behind something you don't want to do. Thats not really a design issue, thats a personal one.

And just like pets, you value these rewards less than you value the time investment necessary. Flying doesn't take away the enjoy of actual pet collecting, but it makes it necessary to invest more time. Thats it. Just like this specific tint/model is locked behind something you don't feel like doing or investing in, whether it be beacuse you dislike the social aspect, or how much time necessary, or whatever else it is.

[Raziella]

One thing I will say though is that normal isn't quite as joke easy as some of the folks have said, to the point that it would be a cakewalk to pug it. The fights aren't super-hard at all, but you might be overestimating pugs. Even the simplest raid fights give pugs trouble. And having done it myself and also watching streams of raid guilds, I saw fairly decent guilds that still wiped on normal. Not on the easier fights like Ursoc, but on some of the others. Still though I fully agree that the best rewards should be limited to normal+ raiding, just saying that normal pugging wouldn't be as easy as some have stated. It's bad enough as-is that you can get up to 850 gear from simple 5 minute wq's and 860-865 gear just from tagging the weekly world boss, and those could be done with almost no effort at all.

I'm in a casual guild (for the perks) and they've really struggled to get down a couple bosses in the raid, even rotating people in and out all week.
Pugging this stuff is really down to luck.
I spent damn near five hours in my first mythic EoA, because I got turned down so much I was afraid to leave after we'd gotten some bosses down, and we didn't get it done.
The next one I got into we ripped through it faster than a heroic.
There were people 850+ in the first one, and the winning one was about 825-830. There's just no way to tell.

The ease of getting gear and the fact that you could completely avoid doing the dungeons on normal/heroic made it so great ilevel players could be completely horrible in the dungeons.
Not sure I agree with being able to gear that easily without doing heroics (which have actually been easier than the normals.)

I also think the gap between the needed ilevel for heroics and the level of the gear that dropped in those heroics might have been way too narrow. By the time you get geared up through world quests to do heroics, you likely don't even need them anymore.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

How delusional are you? Do you not understand that there's a very good reason LFR gets something like four times as much use than even normal?

Its not accessibility.

[Aeula]

so you also want mythic only gear to drop in lfr too right? cause thats basicly the same thing, you want acsess to al the weapon looks in soloable content

I can already get mythic-level gear in LFR though... I can get the LFR tier gauntlets and have them titanforged to a mythic item level through pure luck, yet I can't get a cosmetic reward, despite fulfilling the requirements to do so, because... Why exactly? Raiders like to feel 'spechul' and get offended if I walk around with the blue version of their grindy red sword?

[Raziella]

I'm not confusing anything at all. You have other skin/tint options. Some are gated behind something you don't want to do. Thats not really a design issue, thats a personal one.

And just like pets, you value these rewards less than you value the time investment necessary. Flying doesn't take away the enjoy of actual pet collecting, but it makes it necessary to invest more time. Thats it. Just like this specific tint/model is locked behind something you don't feel like doing or investing in, whether it be beacuse you dislike the social aspect, or how much time necessary, or whatever else it is.

Running around the entire mountain to hunt for a pet makes it not fun. Especially when you'd been used to being able to use flying for all the pet expansions prior to the last two.
So, an action that used to be fun, was now tedious and not worth the time investment.

I'm not sure how hard that is to understand?

The amount of fun or reward you have isn't directly correlated to how much time you waste doing it... Do you really think walking from point A to point B instead of flying there to get a pet is some sort of special achievement...?
It's just a boring, cheap way to get people to spend more time playing.
Honestly, Legion's looking to have a lot of it, sadly - stuff gated behind Nightfallen rep, multiple part Pathfinder, follower-based attunements.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Running around the entire mountain to hunt for a pet makes it not fun. Especially when you'd been used to being able to use flying for all the pet expansions prior to the last two.
So, an action that used to be fun, was now tedious and not worth the time investment.

I'm not sure how hard that is to understand?

The amount of fun or reward you have isn't directly correlated to how much time you waste doing it... Do you really think walking from point A to point B instead of flying there to get a pet is some sort of special achievement...?
It's just a boring, cheap way to get people to spend more time playing.

Thats literally to a T what I wrote. DO you even read what you respond to?

[Usagi Senshi]

Very annoying and they deserve every bit of backlash they receive over this asinine decision.

I honestly would have preferred just actual weapon drops if this was going to be the outcome in the end.

The whole line shouldn't be blocked out, just a color variant.