Warlock Buffs arent enought!!

[Hctaz]

Bruh are you insane? Warlocks are doing AMAZING in raiding. Maybe you're playing the wrong spec? Demo is nearly top dog.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10

[Deleted]

Bruh are you insane? Warlocks are doing AMAZING in raiding. Maybe you're playing the wrong spec? Demo is nearly top dog.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10

You are posting mythic raiding emerald nightmare with only very few parses and many bosses missing. Very small sample size.

Why are you doing that?

[Jondar]

You are posting mythic raiding emerald nightmare with only very few parses and many bosses missing. Very small sample size.

Why are you doing that?

Because Mythic raiding doesn't allow for as much padding, so cheesed meters aren't as prevalent?

People were using Heroic logs against Warlocks the first night the raid was out.. we're two days into Mythic and all of a sudden it's too soon?

Sheesh.

[Ahrimaan]

I really, really hope that you're kidding with this. I'm telling people to worry more about playing their class and worry less about what mythic raiders are doing. That's been like.. my entire point all along. Please stop.

Irrelevant to anything I said.

It's not your responsibility or prerogative to tell anyone to "Please stop" or direct any discussion in any way. Contribute as much as you want, but you don't direct the traffic. Your condescension is as much a cancer to this topic than those who are calling the class unplayable or dead without any substance. Perhaps you don't even realize it, but it puts you in the same category of "the problem".

[Deleted]

Because Mythic raiding doesn't allow for as much padding, so cheesed meters aren't as prevalent?

People were using Heroic logs against Warlocks the first night the raid was out.. we're two days into Mythic and all of a sudden it's too soon?

Sheesh.

1 single Demo Warlock parse for dragons is enough now to make a bold statement about balance?
Is that what we have become?

[Jondar]

Irrelevant to anything I said.

It's not your responsibility or prerogative to tell anyone to "Please stop" or direct any discussion in any way. Contribute as much as you want, but you don't direct the traffic. Your condescension is as much a cancer to this topic than those who are calling the class unplayable or dead without any substance. Perhaps you don't even realize it, but it puts you in the same category of "the problem".

Okay, except "the problem" I directly referred to is the in-game problem of Warlock exclusion in Mythic+ and raids and the issue of people not wanting to play their Warlock in fear of it underperforming. So I'm not sure how you think me being a 'condescending mystic raider' has any effect on that.

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1 single Demo Warlock parse for dragons is enough now to make a bold statement about balance?
Is that what we have become?

There's 177 demo parses - and that got Demo to the #2 spot on the stats page. Alternatively, there are 688 Fire Mage parses to get it to the #3 spot. If only more people were playing their warlocks..

[Deleted]

There's 177 demo parses - and that got Demo to the #2 spot on the stats page. Alternatively, there are 688 Fire Mage parses to get it to the #3 spot. If only more people were playing their warlocks..

And most of those 177 are on Nythendra. There is 1 parse for Demo on dragons. 0 on Xavius, 0 on Cenarius, 0 on Il'Gynoth.
If that is enough for you then fine. I rather look at a bigger sample size instead of one where data is easily skewed.

[Jessicka]

You have literally 0 stats of your own. I've been updating mine as my team progresses. As have many other Warlocks that are actually trying to play their class, not just sitting on a forum complaining about someone else's numbers.

I stopped putting my self worth into the value of how good some people on the internet thought I was at a video game a long time ago, I'm not sure that stage of my life was something to be proud of. Past guilds did log the data though, you can see it here from last I was raiding rather more seriously: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...acter/66156/8/ There are some 90%ile+ parses in there. Between there and Worldoflogs (if it still exists?) there might be stuff going back through every tier to Naxxramas. One thing I do not lack is experience.

This time last year, I had to quit raiding though just before we started on Mythic HFC through chronic illness (I did try a handful of times to get back into it, which is what few Mythic parses there are), which I've only now just started actual treatment for so this would explain my lack of rush back in to things. So, I come back to Legion, 2 of my 3 specs play like crap, one plays alright but is functionally lacking substantially. I persevere with it until 110 in the 'hope' I guess that Affliction turns out okay; as traditionally it's always started weak but very quickly been 'fixed' because the very base mechanics of DoTs and instants should in theory lend themselves well to a raid. It's always sucked in dungeons though, that's almost expected. Still, it feels weaksauce compared to my Mage, which I decide to level as insurance in case Affliction doesn't work out.

While I'm waiting for raids to open, I do dungeons, friends ask me to bring the Mage rather than the Warlock and it becomes self selecting in respect to basically sidelining her; it's no secret to the Warlock community and those visiting these, or other class specific forums, that Warlocks are underperforming and lacking important tools. Players see this in their own groups, look at the same data from logs as I've been showing you, and make their own judgements. They don't need my help in this. Like I said, most nights I've seen trade chat variously bemoaning and laughing at the state of the class.

You're telling me my perceptions are skewed because I lack gear. You tell me I'm bad and inexperienced because I won't post logs, because I know that's exactly what you're going to do. As much as I dislike Celestalon, to give him credit, he's shot down people like you defending me personally. You've provided a single parse that made me think 'well okay, maybe the buffs are okay for at least one of the specs'. I'm still waiting on more data before I make that judgement. But it would appear that Affliction is still a long way off the pace. So again, it's self selecting, I'm not going to respec, I don't like them and I haven't invested anything in to them, so the Mage is going to be given priority by the peers with whom I play.

[Ahrimaan]

You just don't seem to be getting what I am saying.

On topic, I generally agree with what you've been saying. What I'm trying to tell you is that because of your offensive attitude, nobody is paying attention to anything you say.

[Extremities]

Guys don't feed the trolls who think everything is fine.

Some people clearly don't understand how fair comparison, data and logs work. Let's get back to a more civil and constructive approach

^^^^^. What she said!

[Bullarkie]

1 single Demo Warlock parse for dragons is enough now to make a bold statement about balance?
Is that what we have become?

I think we can all agree Jondar needs to take a statistics class before his next post.

Hey guys just came in to say Warlocks are GREAT. I'm doing 99th percentile and top 5 dps in our raids just under the 40th percentile Mage, Hunter, Shadow Priest and Rogue!

I'm really tired of arguing with stupid.

[Jacpierre]

Barely any raids have gone out yet. It's still Tuesday. I'm doing way bigger numbers this time around. The buffs are very, very solid.

Your gear is also a lot better because you probably farmed mythic+. You aren't apples to apples.

[Turturin the Warlock]

sample sizes and selection bias (since majority of high end guilds don't publicize myhic logs) make the mythic data from this week problematic on which to base conclusions.

That said, anecdotally based on my personal experience, I think destro and demo are both pretty good now after the buffs. There are still too many ST vs AoE tradeoffs in the talent trees in my view, but those are design problems, not numbers problems.

I haven't tried affliction since the buffs

[Baconeggcheese]

Yeah, and until those logs are public we only have the current statistics to go by. There is no chance, not even by pure theorycrafting that warlocks are able to keep up with other classes. Currently the openly publicized logs confirm that destro and affli locks are at the bottom for ST DPS.

You keep doing you man, maybe we'll get enough complaints in to get a 2nd round of buffs that'd just make us OP. Wouldn't bother me one bit.

Honestly the only thing that irritates me about the current rhetoric is that it hurts my ability to get into pugs for mythic+ when my guildies aren't around. The rest of it though, you guys keep on believing what you want to believe. I'm going to continue killing mythic bosses and being absolutely competitive.

[Deleted]

I think we can all agree Jondar needs to take a statistics class before his next post.

Hey guys just came in to say Warlocks are GREAT. I'm doing 99th percentile and top 5 dps in our raids just under the 40th percentile Mage, Hunter, Shadow Priest and Rogue!

I'm really tired of arguing with stupid.

We don't need to be rude and sink on other peoples level.
We can still be friends all and have a good time while discussing it

It is definitively something I noticed that people say they are doing great dps in their raid, but that is definitively not helpful. If a destro warlock deals more dps than a Shadow, Ret, Arms, Feral on a single target fight than the other players are either below the destro warlocks skill level big time or the warlock does have better gear.

[Turturin the Warlock]

We don't need to be rude and sink on other peoples level.
We can still be friends all and have a good time while discussing it

It is definitively something I noticed that people say they are doing great dps in their raid, but that is definitively not helpful. If a destro warlock deals more dps than a Shadow, Ret, Arms, Feral on a single target fight than the other players are either below the destro warlocks skill level big time or the warlock does have better gear.

or the arms warrior had a bad rng pull, or the ret pally got rot 6 times and had no uptime in the boss, or a hundred other reasons.

When people say "hey I'm doing great!", it's anecdotal. Anecdotes can be helpful, but a large data set just controls for more factors in aggregate and typically leads to better understanding of the bigger picture.

It's silly to draw positive conclusions (warlocks are doing great!) from a single person's experience, and it's just as silly to try to claim that experience is ONLY due to skill (or lack thereof) (the warlock played with baddies!!!) because it differs from a large data set.

For this week in mythics, we don't have a large data set. We know there are some folks (myself included) who have had positive experiences this week, there are also some folks who haven't. Neither side can really claim to have a big picture understanding. there isn't enough data available to us to make that claim, and the data we do have is limited because we know the guilds who publish early mythic logs are self-selecting.

[Deleted]

or the arms warrior had a bad rng pull, or the ret pally got rot 6 times and had no uptime in the boss, or a hundred other reasons.

When people say "hey I'm doing great!", it's anecdotal. Anecdotes can be helpful, but a large data set just controls for more factors in aggregate and typically leads to better understanding of the bigger picture.

It's silly to draw positive conclusions (warlocks are doing great!) from a single person's experience, and it's just as silly to try to claim that experience is ONLY due to skill (or lack thereof) (the warlock played with baddies!!!) because it differs from a large data set.

For this week in mythics, we don't have a large data set. We know there are some folks (myself included) who have had positive experiences this week, there are also some folks who haven't. Neither side can really claim to have a big picture understanding. there isn't enough data available to us to make that claim, and the data we do have is limited because we know the guilds who publish early mythic logs are self-selecting.

Very well put. I completely agree

[Jondar]

I think we can all agree Jondar needs to take a statistics class before his next post.

Hey guys just came in to say Warlocks are GREAT. I'm doing 99th percentile and top 5 dps in our raids just under the 40th percentile Mage, Hunter, Shadow Priest and Rogue!

I'm really tired of arguing with stupid.

Except the majority of our mages, shadow priests, and hunters are always 90+%. Perhaps you need to learn how to read?

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You're telling me my perceptions are skewed because I lack gear. You tell me I'm bad and inexperienced because I won't post logs, because I know that's exactly what you're going to do. As much as I dislike Celestalon, to give him credit, he's shot down people like you defending me personally. You've provided a single parse that made me think 'well okay, maybe the buffs are okay for at least one of the specs'. I'm still waiting on more data before I make that judgement. But it would appear that Affliction is still a long way off the pace. So again, it's self selecting, I'm not going to respec, I don't like them and I haven't invested anything in to them, so the Mage is going to be given priority by the peers with whom I play.

I'm telling you your numbers are going to be low because you are a low iLvl. At 832, you aren't going to be putting up big numbers. There's no way around that. Point, blank, period. I was asking for logs to see if there were corrections that could be made in your rotation to help you see that Warlocks aren't as bad as you think they are. And they certainly aren't in a bad enough spot for stuff like this:

I do dungeons, friends ask me to bring the Mage rather than the Warlock and it becomes self selecting in respect to basically sidelining her; it's no secret to the Warlock community and those visiting these, or other class specific forums, that Warlocks are underperforming and lacking important tools.

to be happening unless there are major errors in your performance. because Warlocks can do great in dungeons across all three specs. So when I say it's an L2P issue - that doesn't mean "HAHA U SUK L2P NOOB," it's just a faster way of saying "take a look at your rotation."

[Cainium]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

pls. If you wanna act like 10k overall is make or break for a class, that's on you. But in no fucking way does a warlock doing well mean their group is shitty.

For me it seems like you just don't get it. If a mage "could" pull out 30% more damage than a warlock who "could" pull out 15% more damage (compared to the "current" best parses) than the classes aren't balanced. Full stop. That's it, and thats a fact proven by your own logs, so don't try to tell us different if it affects your own group as well.

[Jacpierre]

There are 24 DPS specs. Not all 24 can be top. Some spec will always be nr. 1 and some spec will always be last. When you're in the middle it's fine. You're asking to be made OP.

So are 1,2, and 3 OP? I hate this hyperbolic rhetoric. Being asked to be made OP? Gimme a damn break. The issue isn't that someone has to come in first and someone last. The issue is that the GAP between first and last, given ideal gear and play, or even similar gear and play, should be a lot smaller. There is no real reason that any fight shouldn't be able to be topped by any spec, or even that any spec shouldn't be able to top at least some of the fights. You people are stuck in this retarded mindset where you think that "balance" mean some sort of normal distribution. That isn't at all what need happen here, and really it shouldn't happen.

It's very simple. You just tune numbers. If Aoe on one is stronger, you make the others strong or it weaker. Same with single target. If cleave is too strong on some, you make the cleave portion do less damage, for example, wreak havoc could do 50% to the second target if destros ST got buffed. You play with numbers until they all do similar damage, and then you let the player show how good they are by performing to their max. You don't just accept that Arms/mage/rogue do big ST, and that DH/spriest cleave the best, while mage/arms/rogue also cleave really fucking well, and that ret/ele/all warlock specs, just do less because, you know, balance and stuff.

The soft bigotry of low expectations is all over these forums and I don't get it. it's almost as if you want the excuse for why your dps is shit. You can just say "oh but I'm a warlock" and move on from why other people are out playing you.