Legion - Subtlety discussion

[eil]

Is icyvein's or stjern's artifact route better?

Looking at my own sims, Strjern's route (starting along the bottom of the blade) looks stronger at lower artifact levels and interchangeable at mid power (~26). Towards the late end of the progression, however, it will be slightly worse since gutripper is stronger than either embrace of darkness or fortunes bite. That said, with enough traits the difference that late is probably negligible.

[Barrin]

Quick question: Where can i find stjern's artifact route?

[eil]

It has it's own thread, but here is a link to the compendium.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...XxQKvU/preview

[Hobbes0773]

His route is actually optimal since ideally we want to skip the shield trait. The bottom route just picks up a lot more damage traits quicker but it will always be a trait behind in the long term due to taking that shield trait. I considered re-doing it his way for that reason but I figured the shield might be semi-useful in pvp.

I would keep your spec but head for finality first and then back for akaari, since although akaari is more damage, the energy refund trait before finality is really good.

The shield is amazing in PvP. With a 2 second CD on stealth, you can use the shield to diminish the damage dots do by a lot. This let's you reset fights a lot easier. Sure you keep coming out, but combined with soothing darkness you regen health and can pop crimson vial for quite a bit of healing.

[Tripax]

Does Second Shuriken increase subs AoE potential by a lot? Especially after the buffs?

I like the idea of being a crazy good single target melee dps (that's what sub "should" be I guess), but damn, it feels so clunky at times. After getting used to WW monks cleave, sub feels akward if I have to deal with small adds who don't just die from dance+shuriken storm spam.

[Kalador]

Does Second Shuriken increase subs AoE potential by a lot? Especially after the buffs?

I like the idea of being a crazy good single target melee dps (that's what sub "should" be I guess), but damn, it feels so clunky at times. After getting used to WW monks cleave, sub feels akward if I have to deal with small adds who don't just die from dance+shuriken storm spam.

It's an increase but it's not omg. Take the point if you're planning on playing sub in mythic + . Sub AoE is strong out of multi NB and combo points generation more than Shuriken storm raw dmg, don't get me wrong, it's a strong dmg spell especially in SD. But it's more strong because 1cp per target.

[kindath]

Does Second Shuriken increase subs AoE potential by a lot? Especially after the buffs?

I like the idea of being a crazy good single target melee dps (that's what sub "should" be I guess), but damn, it feels so clunky at times. After getting used to WW monks cleave, sub feels akward if I have to deal with small adds who don't just die from dance+shuriken storm spam.

Second shuriken now effectively adds 20% more damage to shuriken storm. It's pretty good, especially for a single point trait, but the vast majority of your damage is still finishers and it adds nothing to single target fights.

Iskar
5 target perma-aoe

[lolpve]

It's a very good trait, it's just situated poorly in our AP tree. I'm currently in a position of choosing between second shuriken, gutripper, or starting the grind up to shadow nova. I suspect that most rogues will take second shuriken as one of the last traits.

[Deleted]

I also followed the icy veins route, currently at 18 points. Next point for me will be finality, and I've picked up Akaari's soul already. However, the guide suggests I should move towards Shadow Nova after Finality. Would you suggest I respec and go with Stjerns guide instead, pick Finality and keep going the bottom path, or just continue to follow the icy veins guide? Confused atm :S

My current route: wowhead com/artifact-calc/rogue/subtlety/GZLeIRA1MBNUAzVgM1oDNbAzXAM14BNgAVRQEA


Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[Roiids]

I have literally never played Sub... how is it performing in H/M compared to outlaw on the fights?

[FenrizZJ]

SNIP

personally I would suggest using Stjern's guide as it sims better up through 26 points into your weapon. Finality is super important, and should be your first gold. You get Demon's Kiss (Nightblade dmg) and Precision Strikes (Shadowstrike dmg) on the way to Finality, and the next points go into Energetic Stabbing for energy regen.

[Deleted]

personally I would suggest using Stjern's guide as it sims better up through 26 points into your weapon. Finality is super important, and should be your first gold. You get Demon's Kiss (Nightblade dmg) and Precision Strikes (Shadowstrike dmg) on the way to Finality, and the next points go into Energetic Stabbing for energy regen.

Problem is it will cost me 24k AP to swap at this point. Might still be worth it though?

[lolpve]

Problem is it will cost me 24k AP to swap at this point. Might still be worth it though?

Don't bother, your route is actually better. Stjern's guide is better for immediate dps gains, but your route allows you to skip embrace of darkness which is a waste of a trait in PvE. Get finality, then get fortune's bite and the nightblade/shadowstrike traits (I'm not sure which one you would get first, whichever sims highest), and then go up towards shadow nova.

The path on icy veins is the most optimal in the long term http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/subtlet...-traits-relics

[Deleted]

Can anyone help me with legendaries retalenting?
I'm playing sub rogue and just got my first legendary, Shadow Satyr's Walk. Until now i had used VIgor and Master of Shadows my build, all that energy really made rotation flor easily. Now with reduced Shadow Strike cost I'm constantly overflowing with energy. Do I change into deeper Stratagems which seems interesting enough, or maybe into Marked for Death?

[Kwakman]

Deeper Strategem mate, it has great synergy with our mastery and I think it is a no-brainer in that tier.

[philefluxx]

Can anyone help me with legendaries retalenting?
I'm playing sub rogue and just got my first legendary, Shadow Satyr's Walk. Until now i had used VIgor and Master of Shadows my build, all that energy really made rotation flor easily. Now with reduced Shadow Strike cost I'm constantly overflowing with energy. Do I change into deeper Stratagems which seems interesting enough, or maybe into Marked for Death?

Deeper Stratagems for sure. The opening rotation doesn't make sense if you're target already has 5 combo points.

[Deleted]

Don't bother, your route is actually better. Stjern's guide is better for immediate dps gains, but your route allows you to skip embrace of darkness which is a waste of a trait in PvE. Get finality, then get fortune's bite and the nightblade/shadowstrike traits (I'm not sure which one you would get first, whichever sims highest), and then go up towards shadow nova.

Cheers, I'll probably stick to my current path then and go as you suggested. Thank you

[Soisoisoi]

Has anyone figured out / got any news on the Goremaw's Bite bug (you know, the random 1 million + hits)? It's still happening, and I reported it as a bug like 2 weeks ago. Should I assume it's our hidden perk since, AFAIK, there's no info on that yet?

Again though, the fact it happens in rated arena is scary.

[Axaion]

How are you overflowing with energy?, because youre waiting for Master of Subtlety to go off?

I wonder how weapon master would impact your gameplay, just wondering

[Deleted]

How are you overflowing with energy?, because youre waiting for Master of Subtlety to go off?

I wonder how weapon master would impact your gameplay, just wondering

With cheaper shadowstrikes + artifact talent I dont basically use any energy during shadow dances. This happens during lust+shadow blades: because ill pool 2 SD charges for nuke, and all extra energy is useless since im not backstabbing to maximise nuke, energy use is 0. Using deeper stratagem seems to remove this overflow. Is there any site discussing relics and legendaries? There ses to be 0 guides in this topic