New Jersey - Fuck the middle class

[Jacpierre]

The norm for taxation is proportionality. You act like this is some crazy abnormal case. We already treat a dollar made by a poor person differently from a dollar made by a very wealthy people, and we already have numerous tax breaks for spending on certain things, like mortgages.

And we already tax wealthy people proportionately more than poor people, and yet we think they should further be taxed because...jealousy? And we do all of this without realizing our motivations are backwards, and we should concern ourselves with what we actually need tax money for first, and how to spend it judiciously, and then decide how to raise it, instead of just taking as much as we can and then finding ways to waste it.

[Kellhound]

Let me get this straight, you think there are people inheriting multi-million dollar homes whose families are also not so wealthy that they can afford the taxes on it? Do you understand how bizarre someone's finances would have to be for that to be the case?

Not really. Real estate can become very valuable over the course of 50-60 years even if it wasnt when bought.

[Jacpierre]

Bizarre libertarian logical fallacies, check.
Ad hominem communist cries, check.

Please start talking about the non-aggression principle so we can check box three.

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There's no such thing as property or wealth without the state.

Ironically, in response to ad hominem libertarian cries.

Property and wealth have existed long before the state did. How can you be so blind to that fact? Your world view is so narrow it is frightening.

[Kellhound]

Inheritance tax doesn't penalize success. The successful person is dead. Do you count being lucky to have come out of the right vaginal canal as success?

Of course there is no chance that the person had any hand in making/keeping the fortune

[Spiral Mage]

Might wanna read how this tax is actually going into effect and what else is being done, before you know, making yourself look bad on the forums by complaining about it with only half an understanding of it, just saying. A quick google search brought up articles that explained everything clearly. You should try that before posting.

[NineSpine]

And we already tax wealthy people proportionately more than poor people, and yet we think they should further be taxed because...jealousy? And we do all of this without realizing our motivations are backwards, and we should concern ourselves with what we actually need tax money for first, and how to spend it judiciously, and then decide how to raise it, instead of just taking as much as we can and then finding ways to waste it.

Great, we need substantially more tax money than we receive already, in order to fund the programs necessary to move forward in a world where technology creates scarcity of work. These programs include robust educational programs and minimum incomes. Now what?

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Not really. Real estate can become very valuable over the course of 50-60 years even if it wasnt when bought.

Nobody who is not wealthy, is sitting on $5M homes, instead of selling it to be wealthy. Get real.

[Wells]

Of course there is no chance that the person had any hand in making/keeping the fortune

So what? Its someone else's wealth being transferred to them. That's basically exactly what every other tax is. Why should unearned largess get to be tax free when all kinds of other stuff isn't?

[NineSpine]

Ironically, in response to ad hominem libertarian cries.

Property and wealth have existed long before the state did. How can you be so blind to that fact? Your world view is so narrow it is frightening.

I can be blind to it because I've studied history and anthropology, so I know how untrue it is. Property and therefore wealth are concepts that don't exist until sufficient enforcement mechanisms exist to allow them to exist. They are products of society. Property in a world without enforcement of property rights is a totally nonsensical concept.

[belfpala]

What are you going to do to the house if there were no taxes?

Double tax.

I get taxed estate style, then I get taxed again if I try to sell it. Or else I could just live there forever.

[Kellhound]

That doesn't mean the transfer isn't being taxed.

Its the money that is being taxed, the transfer is just the excuse the government uses.

[NineSpine]

Of course there is no chance that the person had any hand in making/keeping the fortune

If they did, then they wouldn't be inheriting it, as they would already be part owner of it.

[Felya]

Not really. Real estate can become very valuable over the course of 50-60 years even if it wasnt when bought.

What is the federal exemption amount on death tax? What about NJ?

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Double tax.

I get taxed estate style, then I get taxed again if I try to sell it. Or else I could just live there forever.

That's great... now answer my question...

[Kellhound]

Bizarre libertarian logical fallacies, check.
Ad hominem communist cries, check.

Please start talking about the non-aggression principle so we can check box three.

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There's no such thing as property or wealth without the state.

Actually there is, the state just makes it easier/more predictable to have and hold.

[Wells]

Its the money that is being taxed, the transfer is just the excuse the government uses.

I mean no, but ok whatever. The transaction triggers and determines the tax.

[NineSpine]

Actually there is, the state just makes it easier/more predictable to have and hold.

What is property without an enforcement mechanism? Answer: The person with a biggest stick telling everyone else what to do. That's not property. What is wealth without society? Nothing. It's meaningless.

[belfpala]

That's great... now answer my question...

Live in it? Sell it? Move to New York again? Open another business? Hire people? I don't know.

[Felya]

Live in it? Sell it? Move to New York again? Open another business? Hire people? I don't know.

No, he pulled out the "home I grew up in" card, if you want to defend him, that is fine. But, you don't get to give me an option based on the emotional plea you are defending. So, again, what are you going to do with the house you grew up in, if you were not taxed?

[Kellhound]

Great, we need substantially more tax money than we receive already, in order to fund the programs necessary to move forward in a world where technology creates scarcity of work. These programs include robust educational programs and minimum incomes. Now what?

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Nobody who is not wealthy, is sitting on $5M homes, instead of selling it to be wealthy. Get real.

Some people feel history is more important than money, but I can see you are a mercenary.

[OperationFerret]

Considering that the taxation rate for 500,000$/year earners in New Jersey is lower than 9% I can't say that this comes as a surprise.

This would be a good time for an armed rebellion but, alas, the government has tanks now.

[NineSpine]

Some people feel history is more important than money, but I can see you are a mercenary.

I'm a fucking historian, and that argument is weak. The idea that fundamentally middle class people are sitting around on insanely valuable homes (which they are by some crazy miracle able to afford property taxes on) is totally bizarre and out of touch with reality.