Suramar City.... I'm speechlesss

[xStevooo]

Experiencing it from the ground helps but I still don't get the same feeling from SW as Suramar. And I played since vanilla so I experienced SW from the ground way back when as well.

- - - Updated - - -



Why do you hate it though, it's design as a city or the annoying patrols?

Hmm good question, it's probably the design - I have no problem with patrols just makes the world feel a bit more alive.

I don't mind the rest of the zone it's pretty cool, but the city area just makes me want to rip my eyes out xD
My favourite zone is High Mountain!

[Faroth]

I'd like it to become a player hub as well, but I'm reminded of how they streamlined Ironforge because the original was too complex and confusing. I'm starting to get a good feel for my way around Suramar, though. I know how to get from the inn I'm hearthstoned to over to the market, how to get up to the menagerie or how to get from there (or the Estate) to the vineyard quickly enough now.

[Shadowferal]

I don't mind the rest of the zone it's pretty cool, but the city area just makes me want to rip my eyes out xD
My favourite zone is High Mountain!

High Mountain...where plenty of others have ripped their own eyes out...

[Deleted]

Sadly, hours of

"what are you hiding" and "something isn't right" tends to blunt those feelings in a hurry. There needs to be an upgrade device, or find a better effin mage so we can get costumes that can pass a cursory inspection from half the city

Or you could just watch where you are going? Its not hard. This is not a friendly city, there supposed to be some danger. You just need to suck less at avoiding danger. Or do you want everything handed to you for no effort?

City is awesome.

[ravenmoon]

I absolute agree with all you have said.
If we do go into an Azshara expansion next, a neutral city would be far better to launch an offensive from, rather than dalaran again.
It would be an out right shame if after legion ends, suramar is left in it's current state
Part of me strongly believes they have massive plans for it, I mean why go into such minute detail for a throw away city?
As someome else mentioned, even things like bed rooms have night clothes, a book, reading glasses etc
They even have the innkeeper, which makes me think it wqs intended fo be a place you will be visiting a lot

yes. the detial is amazing throughout. i think many people keep saying that they should do something more with it, I just hope they listen. I felt it should have been the main hub for this expansion instead of Dalaran, but what they did was much better than that - by having it a questing zone and part of a huge story central to the expansion theme in the way it turned out was much better.. this can set IT up to then be a central hub of future expansion or even post 7.2. or whatever they decide, as long as it is useful.

I read some suggestions on the beta forums about using it as a new Elven nation capital, for a proper neutral elven faction that seeks to reconcile all elves - I presume the author meant that resolution of magic issues that the night elf/nightborne solved by their mutual need would catalize a movement that could spread to encompass all elves. - it's one way of looking at it

But at the moment, I'm seeing it become it's own separate thing, not quite the ambitious goal of the beta poster, but probably a night based kingdom/group of the old school night elves of which both the nightborne and all the other night elf groups of the Broken Isles are - they will be the neutral night elf group everyone can interact with while the alliance night elves continue to be alliance affliated and the blood elves horde affliated. Likely the alliance night elves would be closer to and warmer with the Broken Isle group than the Blood elves, but the blood elves would also have some relations with them, and would be the horde's go to contact with the group.
Just like the tauren are with the Cenarion circle, I don't expect it to be too strong though because the horde do have the Highmountain group, which I expect again both alliance and horde to be involved with, but with the horde having the stronger connection thanks to the Tauren.

There is another thing though, an expansion contianing Azshara or N'zoth would very likely involve the Zandalari and Zul'dazar, I'm wondering if they'll do a troll city on a similar scope/size to Suramar with similar depth next expansion, which will also be neutral, but Horde heavy leaning because of the darkspears just like Suramar is alliance heavy leaning because of the night elves.

We really don't know what they have planned next, but it's nice floating around some possibilities. I do like the neutral approach though that everyone gets to enjoy, gives them the chance to tell a good story without having to worry about faction bias, and mess things up to please one crowd over the other. I am delighted it's night elf based too, night elves have had a pretty neglected wow experience, often shoe-horned into only druid stuff where there lore had so much more to offer - it's nice to see the arcane part of their civilization come, to see non-druid aspects in the nightborne, highborne, wardens and ofc demon hunters that had so much potential but were just periphery when dealing with the night elves. For a while all the amazing elven stuff from TBC went to the blood elves, which I felt was sad because the night elves had so much promise everyone in wow should be able to enjoy and see, because they had an amazing and wondrous backstory and background with a lot of potential for both nature and arcane wonder - especially when they describe their empire as being incredibly advanced moreso than anything today.

So it's nice to see that potential, and nice to see everyone gets to experience all of it, even though it is really tragic when you hope from Azsuna ruins, to the nightmare in Val'sharah then the sickness/starvation and oppression in Suramar.

They better give an amazing finale super fistbump moment

[Redblade]

Hmm good question, it's probably the design - I have no problem with patrols just makes the world feel a bit more alive.

I don't mind the rest of the zone it's pretty cool, but the city area just makes me want to rip my eyes out xD
My favourite zone is High Mountain!

Fair enough, I mean it doesn't have to cater to everyone. I just think most peoples "hate" towards it is due to the hostile npc's.

[ravenmoon]

I have to wonder how well the Nightborn regard the Goblin city in Azhara..

My guess? they'd hate it, the goblins have marred their historical lands with that nonsense, they'd hate it even moreso than the current alliance night elves do, the nightborne elves consider themselves the original night elven empire - so they're going to be even more possessive - remember our alliance night elves thought everything was lost, and felt they coudln't use arcane magic for spells - so for 10k years relied on druidsm and nature, and that became their culture. The night elves of Suramar, like the Highborne of Eldre'thalas continued in the original culture, but unlike Dire Maul, they kept their city very well, it helped having the power source of the Nightwell too ofc to continue to advance, but it also took responsible usage too - their problem came because they were over-reliant on the magic that exarcebated the imbalance the night elves had already developed pre-sundering - which most know as arcane addiction - when their city ran out of food /clothing and many natural resources, to continue to preserve their lives they used their magic even more, coming to rely on the nightwell for even nourishment - so while they weren't abusive or irresponsible with magic like Azshara's lot were in those days, they did overuse by necessity, creating the current nightfallen to Withered problem which they get healed from via a tree that combines nature with the arcane - provided by their night elven brothers - the arcan'dor which solves all the night elves' addiction problems and imbalancing with the arcane, curing the nightfallen and the nightborne from their imbalance in a similar way the sunwell becoming a divine font cured the blood/high elves from their arcane addiction

Basically these lot are more Elven empire orientated and geared, they've got a harder edge to your typical alliance druidic night elf, you see a similar steel in the Wardens and the preistesses of the moon like Tyrande when they're not being all benevolent - and having now emerged from isolation and getting cured I can imagine they'd be pissed at what the goblins have done - how do you think they'd find the goblins? imo, utterly despicable, they'd loathe them and their corruption, swindling and total wasteful consumerism - and they'd be some irony to that too (the beauty of writing).

Question is, if that's the case, would they help them sort it out? or remain on the broken isles? I doubt we'll ever see that confrontation, wow has too many different threads to go there, maybe in a second cata remake... who knows.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I wish they'd make ALL cities feel as alive and populated.

[ravenmoon]

Sadly, hours of

"what are you hiding" and "something isn't right" tends to blunt those feelings in a hurry. There needs to be an upgrade device, or find a better effin mage so we can get costumes that can pass a cursory inspection from half the city

it did give it that Assassin's Creed feel, which was a refreshing welcome, as we've never had that in wow before. But that sneaking around is only for a season. Once you hit exalted, you will kick off the events that 7.1 releases, and at the end of the Nightold raid, the city is set free, so the patch after the Nighthold raid would probably have a difffernt dynamic operating in the city. I have no idea what that will be though, I hope they continue to tell the story of the nightborne integration with their long separated night elf kin, many of the night elven ancients in northern kalimdor having come from Suramar itself - so that willl be cool, there is also Illidan, and his return, I can see him taking to this city because it's exactly as he remembered it - remember he lived here too, and he has beef with the Alliance group of night elves, but none with any of the Broken Isles groups - and he has a role to play in the Legion, including we wait to see the heroic side to him that many of his kin, including his love Tyrande missed - his our of vindication draws near, and as the champion against the Legion, it woudl be interesting to see his role in the city and amongst the Broken Isles night group of elves.

[Sencha]

Compared to other places in WoW it is certainly better. But when you have looked at other recent MMOs, it's hard to be amazed by WoW graphics. Textures are a bit too stretched btw. Also I have never be a fan of elves cities.

[ravenmoon]

Fair enough, I mean it doesn't have to cater to everyone. I just think most peoples "hate" towards it is due to the hostile npc's.

probably, getting caught, and then swarmed, then dying.. and sadly i notice people don't help out much when someone else is being attacked, I tend to if I notice they're struggling, got a few grateful thanks from it, which tells me it was most welcome.

- - - Updated - - -

I wish they'd make ALL cities feel as alive and populated.

yes 1000% , so yes, I wish they re-did every city with this level of detail but the only way that would happen is if that city became a major expansion hub.

What is more likely to happen is that future expansion will focus on other racial groups and give them new cities and sub-races, like they've just done with the night elves here, and those cities would be done properly.. we already got the dwarves getting 2 cities - first was Shadowforge in BRD, then was GrimBatol in Cata. Humans got Dalaran, Draenei got Shattrath in WoD - and whiles the blood elves got Quel'danas, they ahveno't got anything renewed or new citywise, Silvermoon hasn't been repaired, but maybe we'll get a high elf city when Alleria/Turalyon return since where they have been, 1000 years has passed for them so who knows, or we still have that strip of land above EPL that could host another blood elf city , or another island

I'm not sure Tauren would get anything new, we did see the Taunka city and Highmountain, which is 2, but the Trolls, who already got Zul'Gurub, Zul'aman and an entire city zone, the largest in the game for a citiy, i.e. Zul'drak still have one more famous one to come, Zul'dazar - so we can expect that one there.

I don't hink the orcs are going to get another one, Orgrimmar is centre stage afterall, but we have been both to Outland and Draenor, I don't think there sis more there, unless Draenor gets another continent in a future patch, we might get another Orc city - but orc bases/cities like Human ones are all over the place.. and Humans did get Gilneas city and there is Kul'tiras to come in addition to Stromgarde and other places.

I don't see the Forsaken getting new cities, unless we get a Kvaldir city if they join the forsaken - humans might get a vrykul city if they become part of them, but unlikely. Lordareon could do with a revamp, it was supposed to be a proper full on city and could use it. Forsaken could expand Andorhal into a full feldged city that could work. I'm not sure where else they might get one.

Gnomes ofc have Gnomeragan, but that's it, Although they could team up with the mechagnomes and have the workshop area of Ulduar a Gnomish second capital.

There are off course many other cities, repairs are awaiting Stratholme, Dire Maul, Ahn'qiraj, Azjol Nerub -- and the second most beautiful city imo, Skywall, remains unused.

[Demithio]

I hope it develops into a neutral faction cap city. Otherwise, it seems like a very large waste of development over the long term.

[Dieselol]

It's amazing but its kind of useless as all you do is run around trying to not be caught because it has waaaay too many guard spawns.

[ravenmoon]

Compared to other places in WoW it is certainly better. But when you have looked at other recent MMOs, it's hard to be amazed by WoW graphics. Textures are a bit too stretched btw. Also I have never be a fan of elves cities.

I was amazed by elven cities, Darnassus was a nice but not quite the grandness i had hoped for. Silvermoon did not disappoint though, I thought that blizzard really went high imagniatnio and art there, was well impressed they went so out of the box and lovely there. Suramar though was breathtaking and brought to life the descriptions in the WC3 manual and in WotA of the amazing Night Elf empire. They surpassed all their earlier works with it, how are they going to beat that?

Well, we still have Argus to come, and Naz'jatar and Zul'dazar - I don't expect Zul'dazar to be as elegant or sculpted, but it would be grand. Argus would probably look very hi-tech, alien too. Hints of it in the Legion buildings perhaps? or they'd do something difffernet. Naz'jatar would be impressive too but very spikey underwater sea like which i'm sure would be impressive, but I don't think would have the graceful beauty of Suramar as it's not meant to be a gracefully beautiful place. Grace and beauty in that fashion you would only see when you encounter broken isle night/nightborne elves or high/blood elves if they build stuff in the future - each with their own themes/schemes.

- - - Updated - - -

I hope it develops into a neutral faction cap city. Otherwise, it seems like a very large waste of development over the long term.

yes. the detial is amazing throughout. i think many people keep saying that they should do something more with it, I just hope they listen. I felt it should have been the main hub for this expansion instead of Dalaran, but what they did was much better than that - by having it a questing zone and part of a huge story central to the expansion theme in the way it turned out was much better.. this can set IT up to then be a central hub of future expansion or even post 7.2. or whatever they decide, as long as it is useful.

I read some suggestions on the beta forums about using it as a new Elven nation capital, for a proper neutral elven faction that seeks to reconcile all elves - I presume the author meant that resolution of magic issues that the night elf/nightborne solved by their mutual need would catalize a movement that could spread to encompass all elves. - it's one way of looking at it

But at the moment, I'm seeing it become it's own separate thing, not quite the ambitious goal of the beta poster, but probably a night based kingdom/group of the old school night elves of which both the nightborne and all the other night elf groups of the Broken Isles are - they will be the neutral night elf group everyone can interact with while the alliance night elves continue to be alliance affliated and the blood elves horde affliated. Likely the alliance night elves would be closer to and warmer with the Broken Isle group than the Blood elves, but the blood elves would also have some relations with them, and would be the horde's go to contact with the group.
Just like the tauren are with the Cenarion circle, I don't expect it to be too strong though because the horde do have the Highmountain group, which I expect again both alliance and horde to be involved with, but with the horde having the stronger connection thanks to the Tauren.

There is another thing though, an expansion contianing Azshara or N'zoth would very likely involve the Zandalari and Zul'dazar, I'm wondering if they'll do a troll city on a similar scope/size to Suramar with similar depth next expansion, which will also be neutral, but Horde heavy leaning because of the darkspears just like Suramar is alliance heavy leaning because of the night elves.

We really don't know what they have planned next, but it's nice floating around some possibilities. I do like the neutral approach though that everyone gets to enjoy, gives them the chance to tell a good story without having to worry about faction bias, and mess things up to please one crowd over the other. I am delighted it's night elf based too, night elves have had a pretty neglected wow experience, often shoe-horned into only druid stuff where there lore had so much more to offer - it's nice to see the arcane part of their civilization come, to see non-druid aspects in the nightborne, highborne, wardens and ofc demon hunters that had so much potential but were just periphery when dealing with the night elves. For a while all the amazing elven stuff from TBC went to the blood elves, which I felt was sad because the night elves had so much promise everyone in wow should be able to enjoy and see, because they had an amazing and wondrous backstory and background with a lot of potential for both nature and arcane wonder - especially when they describe their empire as being incredibly advanced moreso than anything today.

So it's nice to see that potential, and nice to see everyone gets to experience all of it, even though it is really tragic when you hope from Azsuna ruins, to the nightmare in Val'sharah then the sickness/starvation and oppression in Suramar.

They better give an amazing finale super fistbump moment

[Deleted]

One thing that has occurred to me, with how player housing is still a future potential.
One thing that would be amazing. If you complete the initial main story in suramar, followed by 7.1 and any follow on's
I would love the ability for them to offer you a piece of land in suramar. Even if it's just a small house to logout in.
A "thank you for all the work you done to restore our city, come live with us"
It's something that could easily be built on in future expansions. Like add the ability to add your own touches to the house, add a sun song style garden (no not the WoD herb plot or mines) add a quiet fishing spot etc.

[Kul Tiras]

It better fucking well be, after having Aunchidoun, Shattrath and Karabor basically useless in WOD, they have a lot of sins to make up for.

[Segus1992]

It makes me sad that our faction cities don't have the same grand scale and feel to them. My first though when entering that place was "This is how a city like Stormwind should look and feel".

Because huge capital cities are awful to traverse.

[Redblade]

Because huge capital cities are awful to traverse.

Suramar isn't that huge if you know how to get around.

[ComputerNerd]

There is no argument to be made that Suramar is not the best production in WoW history. People are of course entitled to their opinion of it, and don't have to like it. But that doesn't mean it's not the best environment they've ever done. Objectively it's the most detailed, most elaborate, most populated city they've ever designed by far, it's full of clever stories, and fulfills the sense of wonder and gravitas appropriate to the lore that it represents.

Kudos to their team.

Stories are subjective.
There are plenty of arguments to be made, you just don't want to agree with them.
Different from there being none.

Tedious to navigate.
Patrols with detection simply serves to make the content last longer, and isn't adding in anything interesting long-term.
They can even interrupt actively in unavoidable ways, as in my case trying to follow a "spy", and a patrol due to its radius actually forcing me out of the necessary minimum range, and required me to restart the quest.
There was nothing in that case I could do to avoid that, which the detectors are meant to be in their own right, avoidable if you take care.
That isn't always possible.

[Segus1992]

Suramar isn't that huge if you know how to get around.

Suramar is so huge it requires several teleporters to even be remotely traversible. Huge Stormwind would suck.