How is warlocks this expansion?

[Tya]

depends if you pvp or pve. I would say wait until the ptr changes go live and see. We arent the worst (shadow priest, elesham) but we also arent the best.

I'll never understand why people keep comparing the entire class of warlocks to single specs. If you compare warlocks to shaman as a whole, shaman are far better. Same with priests. Resto shaman are amazing right now and enh is literally the top dps overall. Disc is the mythic+ healer and top notch everywhere else. Warlocks are average at best (demo/destro).

[Bjarkan]

Well, demonology was a pain in the arse to play optimally, but at least it had rewards commensurate to skilland effort. It was also vastly more versatile. I don;t think it was all that well designed, it was just better.

Affliction tended to be boxed in by it's aoe weakness, but they failed again by making it boxe din by it's single target weakness instead, and I would agree that affliction now is much less versatile it was then (and at least we didn;t have that cancer called soul effigy)

Destruction, well, it;s okay, mostly because they didn;t change it much!

I really think the problem with Affly is we had 4 dots and 1 filler channel... 4 dots means a lot of ramup time, also mean every dot had to do a minor damage, for the propurse of avoid multidot godlike... The SP had 2 dots and 1 filler channel, this mean, it had half of a ramup time, only in the dots, and lets dont even talk about their dots individual damage (also, Mind Flay last something like 3s to do full damage, Drain Life/Drain Soul last 6s).

Affly could be fixed very easy tho... Removing Life Siphon as a Dot, and making it a talent that allow Corruption to heal some portion of it damage, just like was in the Wrath... This cut our ramup time a 25% percent, and allow devs to buff Corruption base damage... But, i really dont think this would ever happen, not while blizz keep babystting the Shadow Priest (they get back shadowform in the 7.1 with 10% of damage reduction, their only weakness).

[Stryker-88]

I am really enjoying warlock atm, I played lock a little bit in WoD. I think there is a lot of negativity surround locks atm, a good bit of it is grounded, but some is blown out of proportion. I feel that we are a little bit short on damage and there are some quirks in our talent tree that need addressing. But all in all a fun class to play

[bonewax]

I'll never understand why people keep comparing the entire class of warlocks to single specs. If you compare warlocks to shaman as a whole, shaman are far better. Same with priests. Resto shaman are amazing right now and enh is literally the top dps overall. Disc is the mythic+ healer and top notch everywhere else. Warlocks are average at best (demo/destro).

I compared them because they're both dps caster specs. And if someone is asking about how dps casters are in legion before playing the game i made the comparison based on that. I know each caster has a different set of tools but in general they are all subject to the same problem in legion right now which is low mobility, low cc, low utility and way too much hardcasting.

As for warlocks in relation to your last statement, they are average but demo is better than it was and the changes coming to destro look amazing.

[Jessicka]

I really think the problem with Affly is we had 4 dots and 1 filler channel... 4 dots means a lot of ramup time, also mean every dot had to do a minor damage, for the propurse of avoid multidot godlike... The SP had 2 dots and 1 filler channel, this mean, it had half of a ramup time, only in the dots, and lets dont even talk about their dots individual damage (also, Mind Flay last something like 3s to do full damage, Drain Life/Drain Soul last 6s).

Affly could be fixed very easy tho... Removing Life Siphon as a Dot, and making it a talent that allow Corruption to heal some portion of it damage, just like was in the Wrath... This cut our ramup time a 25% percent, and allow devs to buff Corruption base damage... But, i really dont think this would ever happen, not while blizz keep babystting the Shadow Priest (they get back shadowform in the 7.1 with 10% of damage reduction, their only weakness).

With Absolute Corruption, Soul Harvest, and Soul Conduit, you effectively have Affliction down to Agony as the only DoT. UA is effectively a nuke for mechanical purposes.

[Cainium]

Not to forget having a talent and a gold trait doing the exact same thing is more dull than everything else...

[Deleted]

The ironyu is that one solution to affliction's weakness on single target is already in the game - in the form of the Xavius trinket. Basically, the fewer targets that trinket's "corruption" spreads to the harder it hits.

Weird that they put that on a trinket but I;d guess they'd say it was too hard to put on affliction lol

[Bjarkan]

With Absolute Corruption, Soul Harvest, and Soul Conduit, you effectively have Affliction down to Agony as the only DoT. UA is effectively a nuke for mechanical purposes.

Is no quite the same... Sure, why Absolute Corruption we dont have to refresh Corruption, and giving it more damage too, but that damage is actually very poor... In my alt Lock lv100 dat talent only give 2k of increased damage to Corruption, the same kind of talent for a Shadow Priest give them 14k of damage, all this on lv100. Just how it is right now, on that level and with the specific talents and mastery, Vampiric Touch do something around 84k of damage in 18s, and Corruption, with the same talents kind of talents and mastery, only do something like 32k of damage on 14s...

Looking at it, only Vampiric Touch do almost the triple of damage of Corruption, or say another way around, Vampiric Touch only do more damage then Corruption + Siphon Life, with less mana cost, less GCD, less ramup time and even heal for itself, when we actually had to take a talent and another dot for it... Dont get me wrong, im not complain about SP, im doing is a comparative critic with a spec similiar to Affly.

Trully, i dont really understand why SP dots do so much damage, been only 2, and our dots do so few been 4... Multidotting as a SP is so simple, and more gamebreaking then anything that come to my mind on this moment, so the excuse for Affly poor damage is, to me, just a very bad excuse.

[Zandalariprelate]

If you like being a dark sorcerer then yes, but dk unholy can be that to but in melee spec and with better dps

[lanesia24]

Affliction is pretty awful.

[bonewax]

Is no quite the same... Sure, why Absolute Corruption we dont have to refresh Corruption, and giving it more damage too, but that damage is actually very poor... In my alt Lock lv100 dat talent only give 2k of increased damage to Corruption, the same kind of talent for a Shadow Priest give them 14k of damage, all this on lv100. Just how it is right now, on that level and with the specific talents and mastery, Vampiric Touch do something around 84k of damage in 18s, and Corruption, with the same talents kind of talents and mastery, only do something like 32k of damage on 14s...

Looking at it, only Vampiric Touch do almost the triple of damage of Corruption, or say another way around, Vampiric Touch only do more damage then Corruption + Siphon Life, with less mana cost, less GCD, less ramup time and even heal for itself, when we actually had to take a talent and another dot for it... Dont get me wrong, im not complain about SP, im doing is a comparative critic with a spec similiar to Affly.

Trully, i dont really understand why SP dots do so much damage, been only 2, and our dots do so few been 4... Multidotting as a SP is so simple, and more gamebreaking then anything that come to my mind on this moment, so the excuse for Affly poor damage is, to me, just a very bad excuse.

dotting really isnt where the sp's damage lies. The downside to sp is the long ramp up to void form and then the very short window you have as void form to output your real damage. VT and SWP are just there to keep you dps'ing while you are trying to get back into void form. I would take afflic over sp simply because afflic's damage is up front and requires way less ramp up than void form and heals for a lot more than VT can ever offer.

[Liarparadox]

I'll never understand why people keep comparing the entire class of warlocks to single specs. If you compare warlocks to shaman as a whole, shaman are far better. Same with priests. Resto shaman are amazing right now and enh is literally the top dps overall. Disc is the mythic+ healer and top notch everywhere else. Warlocks are average at best (demo/destro).

I was wondering when I would finally see someone else realize that the conversation is always about comparing 3 specs to one. Taken together, locks don't look too bad when compared to many specs (though some specs still have the entire class beat). What odd conversations.

[Bjarkan]

dotting really isnt where the sp's damage lies. The downside to sp is the long ramp up to void form and then the very short window you have as void form to output your real damage. VT and SWP are just there to keep you dps'ing while you are trying to get back into void form. I would take afflic over sp simply because afflic's damage is up front and requires way less ramp up than void form and heals for a lot more than VT can ever offer.

Pardon me? Affly requires less ram up time that a SP? Sorry, but i can agree with that, as you could see the numbers in my previous post, SP dots do more then doble of damage of Affly, and that also means a lot less of GCD used refreshing it, so it can be used for the filler channel, o the nuker (Mind Blast).

Voidform it just a mechanic (a very broken one when is well played, but that is ok, because is very hard to keep it up), the numbers without it still make SP a lot more efficient dotting spec that Affly. And, Voidform 20% increased damage is not the only thing that affect the dots, with 15 stacks, or the same time 15s on Voidform, Vampiric Touch gain 11k of damage, only by haste bonus... With 20 stacks, Vampiric Touch reach 100k of damage on a SP lv100 without artefact, again, only by haste. This bonus is for a really hard mechanic, but is also a very high increment of damage because the base damage of Vampiric Touch is very high. If my calculations dont go off, we only can compite with that with Agony with 20 stack AND UA with 5 stack... And for that, we need a lot of ram up time (and lets dont talk about multidotting helping a lot on the insanity generation deparment, with makes the things worse in efficiency).

I was wondering when I would finally see someone else realize that the conversation is always about comparing 3 specs to one. Taken together, locks don't look too bad when compared to many specs (though some specs still have the entire class beat). What odd conversations.

In my case, is just to clarify that the excuse of blizz for Affly poor damage is a very poor one, as in numbers, that is how things are objectively compared against each other, we can see their make a class exactly oppose to what they preach.

[Hamunra]

I have seen people talks shit about warlocks but also I have seen good talks about them too. How are warlocks in PVE since I only do raids and dungeons. I want to start a warlock but I dont want to if they are not fun and not viable at all.

Thanks!

When does this end? How could you NOT read the ten thousand threads already in this forum to get an idea of the two camps of thought? It seems like this keeps getting dredged up just for drama's sake.

Can we please stop?

[Pdoge]

I have seen people talks shit about warlocks but also I have seen good talks about them too. How are warlocks in PVE since I only do raids and dungeons. I want to start a warlock but I dont want to if they are not fun and not viable at all.

Thanks!

Destro 7-8
Demo 6
Afflic mythic+/pvp

[Deleted]

depends if you pvp or pve. I would say wait until the ptr changes go live and see. We arent the worst (shadow priest, elesham) but we also arent the best.

I'm not in the whiner camp at all, but I have to correct you about Shadow Priests being bad. Shadow priests? Really? They are super strong atm and on their worst bosses they're above middle at least. No idea where you get this idea from.
Just check the real life parses from Warcraftlogs you'll see. Plenty of parses now as well.

They're also strong in PvP, got as many of them in the 3v3 top500 as all three warlock specs together.

[Deleted]

I'm not in the whiner camp at all, but I have to correct you about Shadow Priests being bad. Shadow priests? Really? They are super strong atm and on their worst bosses they're above middle at least. No idea where you get this idea from.
Just check the real life parses from Warcraftlogs you'll see. Plenty of parses now as well.

They're also strong in PvP, got as many of them in the 3v3 top500 as all three warlock specs together.

Yep I can second that. Shadow Priests are pretty strong at the moment. But there are quite a few "inflated" warcraftlogs because in short fights shadow priests are really really strong.

[bonewax]

I'm not in the whiner camp at all, but I have to correct you about Shadow Priests being bad. Shadow priests? Really? They are super strong atm and on their worst bosses they're above middle at least. No idea where you get this idea from.
Just check the real life parses from Warcraftlogs you'll see. Plenty of parses now as well.

They're also strong in PvP, got as many of them in the 3v3 top500 as all three warlock specs together.

sp's are only strong in 3's when in a RMP comp. Reason being mage and rogue have such ridiculous amounts of CC that the sp can just sit back and turret. Out side of 3s please show me how strong sp's are in 2s. When you have heals and peels sp's look great.

- - - Updated - - -

Pardon me? Affly requires less ram up time that a SP? Sorry, but i can agree with that, as you could see the numbers in my previous post, SP dots do more then doble of damage of Affly, and that also means a lot less of GCD used refreshing it, so it can be used for the filler channel, o the nuker (Mind Blast).

Voidform it just a mechanic (a very broken one when is well played, but that is ok, because is very hard to keep it up), the numbers without it still make SP a lot more efficient dotting spec that Affly. And, Voidform 20% increased damage is not the only thing that affect the dots, with 15 stacks, or the same time 15s on Voidform, Vampiric Touch gain 11k of damage, only by haste bonus... With 20 stacks, Vampiric Touch reach 100k of damage on a SP lv100 without artefact, again, only by haste. This bonus is for a really hard mechanic, but is also a very high increment of damage because the base damage of Vampiric Touch is very high. If my calculations dont go off, we only can compite with that with Agony with 20 stack AND UA with 5 stack... And for that, we need a lot of ram up time (and lets dont talk about multidotting helping a lot on the insanity generation deparment, with makes the things worse in efficiency).



In my case, is just to clarify that the excuse of blizz for Affly poor damage is a very poor one, as in numbers, that is how things are objectively compared against each other, we can see their make a class exactly oppose to what they preach.

You countered your own argument when you talked about vt damage in void form due to the fact void form requires ramp up. So that time while generating insanity is when we are the weakest. Whereas afflic is up front stronger due to not having a form to build up to. Granted when in void form out damage is increased but its such a short window of opportunity that it practically nullifies void form and the most benefit you get is the increased haste after void form.

[Bjarkan]

sp's are only strong in 3's when in a RMP comp. Reason being mage and rogue have such ridiculous amounts of CC that the sp can just sit back and turret. Out side of 3s please show me how strong sp's are in 2s. When you have heals and peels sp's look great.

You countered your own argument when you talked about vt damage in void form due to the fact void form requires ramp up. So that time while generating insanity is when we are the weakest. Whereas afflic is up front stronger due to not having a form to build up to. Granted when in void form out damage is increased but its such a short window of opportunity that it practically nullifies void form and the most benefit you get is the increased haste after void form.

I no countered nothing, VF is not need for SP out damage Affly in dots damage, VF is just a mechanic... My point to number the bonus on VF was to state the base damage of SP dots againts Affly, and showing what absurd kind of excuse blizz make for no letting Affly do more damage.

And, you say SP is useless in 2s? Really? Dunno what kind of SP you have been see until now, but i can asure you, a SP can easily kill 2 ppl while keeping healed.

[bonewax]

I no countered nothing, VF is not need for SP out damage Affly in dots damage, VF is just a mechanic... My point to number the bonus on VF was to state the base damage of SP dots againts Affly, and showing what absurd kind of excuse blizz make for no letting Affly do more damage.

And, you say SP is useless in 2s? Really? Dunno what kind of SP you have been see until now, but i can asure you, a SP can easily kill 2 ppl while keeping healed.

LOL you can "assure" me that a sp can easily kill 2 people while keeping healed? If you're so sure post a video or proof of that. I would pay money to see it. The only way a sp could kill 2 people is if they are complete idiots that dont know how to play this game. Probably the most laughable reply ive read all week, next to conflux that is...