Do you miss reforging?

[Mercane]

reforging was a ridiculous waste of time and effort. Noone really did anything but use addons or AskMrRobot to identify the "perfect" reforges, so any player decision was removed and simplified with an addon.

it provided no fun or interesting game play. i'm glad its gone. i hope it never comes back.

How is this any different than talent trees, current talents, or anything else to help min/max performance?

[Aeriel]

I was never a min/max player and rarely reforged, but I can see how some specs with such a dependency on a particular secondary could definitely benefit (crit for fire and haste for shadow).

The current dependencies have the potential for the next tier's drops to be less valuable, and even be downgrades due to stat distributions. This is a bad design scenario. I can understand when people would not want to break a set bonus, but non-set pieces should be upgrades from tier to tier (excluding legendaries) simply to ilvl and "difficulty."

[Eurhetemec]

I'm just tired of RNG having such a massive impact, when you can't influence it. RNG is fine in smaller doses, but to this degree? Without any way of mending bad luck? It is simply bad design, and as I said, I don't care if they return reforging or balance secondary stats better, but neither is just not good.

As I've illustrated, they must do the latter.

Bringing back reforging when a class has a secondary stat more powerful than a primary is effectively like letting that class (or those classes) reforge secondaries to primary stats, but not other classes! How is that possibly okay?!

[Littleraven]

Not really. It's frustrating to get a "good" piece of gear with less than optimal stats but people act like it is the end of the world if they can't min-max every little thing. Would it help? Of course it would. I'm not dumb. I was a pretty hardcore raider from the end of BC all the way through the start of MoP but it is unnecessary. It's boring to just get every stat you want IMO. I kinda like having to make choices here and there instead of just being spoon fed my best stats on everything.

[Deleted]

Option number two fully explains how Blizzard is spitting in the face of anyone trying to fully optimize their toon. After crafted gear there are literally zero items outside of pvp world quest drops that are fully optimized with both main stats on some classes.

Hi.
Fully optimized-stat gear never existed in WoW history.
Never before reforging. Never while. Never after.
There you go.

[Aleksej89]

My experience with reforging:

1. Read from respected forums and guild mates about stat weights/priorities.
2. Go into askrobot addon/website, input those custom weights for it to calculate.
3. Mathematically superior gear modifications applied - assuming custom stat weights were perfect.

Reforging was all about determining the perfect custom stat weights and then letting askrobot do all the math.
Some people liked playing around manually with reforging, but that was ALWAYS inferior when compared to perfect custom weights+ask robot.

[Jazzhands]

I'm just tired of RNG having such a massive impact, when you can't influence it. RNG is fine in smaller doses, but to this degree? Without any way of mending bad luck? It is simply bad design, and as I said, I don't care if they return reforging or balance secondary stats better, but neither is just not good.

- - - Updated - - -



Or people just want massive ilvl upgrades to actually be upgrades. Especially when other specs / classes don't have the same issue.

Every class has optimal and sub optimal stats, no one can avoid getting a "bad item". Every spec has 2 stats that are typically the best, and 2 that aren't as good. I've gotten plenty of items on both ends of that spectrum.

Thing is, most people seem to have completely forgotten that up until this expac, you wouldn't even be getting those ilvl upgrades EVER, most people would still be stuck in heroic dungeon and normal/LFR raid gear, without any hope of advancing. Blizzard gave you a system that still allows you to advance outside of raids, and it's still not enough, because you don't get exactly what you want every time.

And for the record, i'm 863, and I have 1 item from raids, an 855 trinket. M+ and world quest literally shower you with gear.

[anj]

Yes. All I know is what I play (Demo lock) and what I play is extremely dependent on haste. I've had to forego many ilvl upgrade pieces because of a lack of haste on them. What sucks on top of that is LFR/G considers ilvl as the, understandably, only performance metric. It leaves out that I could easily have 5-7 extra ilvls, but I'd probably have a 10-30k dps decrease. Shit's frustrating.

[mhdoe]

No I do not miss cheesing bad stats into good stats instead of running for the best in slot gear.

[xStevooo]

reforging was a ridiculous waste of time and effort. Noone really did anything but use addons or AskMrRobot to identify the "perfect" reforges, so any player decision was removed and simplified with an addon.

it provided no fun or interesting game play. i'm glad its gone. i hope it never comes back.

You normally give decent replies, but this one is just a bit herp derp xD
It's not to provide fun, interesting or compelling gameplay. It was a feature to help balance out stat weights, a key fundamental in a game of this calibre.

Some of the items are out right garbage with the secondary stats they have (ilvl 835 items being better than 865). Reforging is needed in the current state.

[dadev]

Old system:
1) Get new item. 2) Go to website/sim, check if upgrade, record reforge data. 3) Go to reforger (or use mount) and reforge according to 2. 4) Enchant & gem, 5) Equip
Steps 2,3 are likely unskippable because of hit cap.

Current system:
1) Get new item. 2) Go to website/sim, check if item is an upgrade. 3) Enchant & gem. 4) Equip.

Reforging back:
1) Get new item
2) Your equipped item has best stats and new one not? Go to website/sim and check if upgrade. In any other case skip this step.
3) Go to reforger (or use mount), reforge worst stat on item into best or second best. Don't even need website for this as there's no hit cap.
4) Enchant & gem.
5) Equip

Furthermore, with the old system you practically had to reforge (even if you were not minmaxer) because of the hit cap, or your dps would plummet. With the new one it'll no longer be a hard requirement, you'll still do fine dps if you completely skip reforging.
So it would seem that bringing it back has only benefits for players. But...
Then comes stat stacking, and we all know what the fine gentlemen at Blizzard do when they detect traces of fun

Thing is, most people seem to have completely forgotten that up until this expac, you wouldn't even be getting those ilvl upgrades EVER, most people would still be stuck in heroic dungeon and normal/LFR raid gear, without any hope of advancing.

But this is not 100% true. Valor upgrades were available in MoP and end of WoD. They were not insane upgrades of course, but they did serve their purpose as a slow consistent nerf to the raid. You would slowly go from one difficulty gear to almost the one above. Now it's just rng based.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Of course anything that once was can be missed from time to time. But it isn't something I would lose sleep over.

[caervek]

Old system:
1) Get new item.
2) Go to website/sim, check if upgrade, record reforge data.
3) Go to reforger (or use mount) and reforge according to 2.
4) Enchant & gem,
5) Equip
Steps 2,3 are likely unskippable because of hit cap.

Current system:
1) Get new item. 2) Go to website/sim, check if item is an upgrade. 3) Enchant & gem. 4) Equip.

Reforging back:
1) Get new item
2) Your equipped item has best stats and new one not? Go to website/sim and check if upgrade. In any other case skip this step.
3) Go to reforger (or use mount), reforge worst stat on item into best or second best. Don't even need website for this as there's no hit cap.
4) Enchant & gem.
5) Equip

Or a simpler way of explaining it:

Old system: Get new item, good chance it's useful.
Current system: Get new item, low chance it's useful.
Reforging back: Get new item, good chance it's useful.

[Blackmist]

Do I miss going to a website/addon and clicking a button to tell me what to do with my gear?

No. No I don't.

We only needed reforging because of hit and expertise. We don't have hit and expertise. We have stats of varying values. If an item has enough ilvl it outweighs a bad stat and vice versa. Reforging everything was boring. Gemming everything was boring. Enchanting everything was boring. None of it really added to the new item experience. It was just busywork.

[Deleted]

Yep.

If it wasn't for warforged/titanforged RNG, I wouldn't want reforging. But there is way too much RNG going on in game. Reforging is needed to offset that RNG crap.

[Jazzhands]

Old system:
1) Get new item. 2) Go to website/sim, check if upgrade, record reforge data. 3) Go to reforger (or use mount) and reforge according to 2. 4) Enchant & gem, 5) Equip
Steps 2,3 are likely unskippable because of hit cap.

Current system:
1) Get new item. 2) Go to website/sim, check if item is an upgrade. 3) Enchant & gem. 4) Equip.

Reforging back:
1) Get new item
2) Your equipped item has best stats and new one not? Go to website/sim and check if upgrade. In any other case skip this step.
3) Go to reforger (or use mount), reforge worst stat on item into best or second best. Don't even need website for this as there's no hit cap.
4) Enchant & gem.
5) Equip

Furthermore, with the old system you practically had to reforge (even if you were not minmaxer) because of the hit cap, or your dps would plummet. With the new one it'll no longer be a hard requirement, you'll still do fine dps if you completely skip reforging.
So it would seem that bringing it back has only benefits for players. But...
Then comes stat stacking, and we all know what the fine gentlemen at Blizzard do when they detect traces of fun


But this is not 100% true. Valor upgrades were available in MoP and end of WoD. They were not insane upgrades of course, but they did serve their purpose as a slow consistent nerf to the raid. You would slowly go from one difficulty gear to almost the one above. Now it's just rng based.

I only played MoP at the end, weren't valor upgrades simply a 10 item level upgrade until SoO had been out forever, then they went up to 20? Either way, no one cares about the end of the expansion really, because everything is faceroll and anyone can get raid gear at that point.

RNG upgrades or none at all. Take your pick.

[Kaeth]

The addons, the web tools, etc. all would be irrelevant now if Reforging were still in the game. They existed because Hit Rating and Expertise Rating existed. Without the awkward game of tweaking your entire gear set with every individual item upgrade (again, because of hit and expertise), reforging would be a simple and straightforward feature. And, in my humble opinion, a welcome one.

The lack of primary stat on Legion jewelry in particular makes it really difficult to get excited for a titanforged "upgrade" versatility/mastery ring for a balance druid. At least being able to turn 40% of one of those stats into haste would give some consolation.

[MasterHamster]

I kinda enjoyed when new items had a bit of procedure before it was time to equip. When nearly every item had gem sockets, available enchants and reforging.
However, objectively it was nothing but barriers keeping you from equipping a new item and seeing the difference right away.

I'd still prefer that old ways to return. I dislike the random nature of sockets, and a grand total of 3 enchant slots are dull.
But if not, they really should add Valor upgrades again. It's an excellent phychological system that gives you another progression route, but is not necessarily making you progress much faster on a larger scale. Eventually you get +10 on every item, but then the gap between what you have available and what drops at your "recommended difficulty" is decreased.

However, I think it's pretty ridiculous that people are so frustrated when they get an item with non-optimal stats. Do we truly want the only consideration when getting a new item to be "is ilvl higher? if yes, equip."

No, I don't believe so. However, this poll is essentially, for the layman gamer, asking if one would prefer not to get suboptimal stats on gear. That is not a question a majority of people are able to properly answer when it comes to the underlying point: Would it improve the game overall?

Also, cynically, non-optimal gear prolongs the time before someone is truly "BiS", which is good for the longevity of the game.

[cuafpr]

I didn't in WoD but in legion yes... even the "prot" gear from EN has horrid stats for prot pallies like really??

[Aeula]

I've never really cared about stat priority, but I sure do miss having 40% haste on my ret paladin. Haven't had that since SoO. It just made the rotation so smooth.

On the other hand it was a money sink and I'm glad I don't have to look up stat priority for my class anymore (Well except for when I've got to slam in some gems and enchants).