assasination in mythic +?

[Animatelol]

They're all spammy, brainless specs to be fair.

[Enitzu]

Is it relevant to be bleed or poison spec as Assassin in mythic+? Or is it still "if you gear allows just go poison"?

I would say MP/exsang is probably the best for M+. Agonizing is good for bosses but it requires you swapping back and forth a lot. I prefer just to use exsang full time and I can get up faster ruptures on trash without hurting single target much

[Kalador]

no idea how people think sin isn't competitive with outlaw for M+

sin pulls pretty impressive aoe against outlaw, you know, the spec that is supposed to be "amazing at aoe"

Both sin and sub are good in m+, they have some good stuff to offer for them but saying they are better than outlaw is just not true, outlaw as the best toolkit for dungeon; it offers very good cleave, doesn't need any setup, it's the best spec to take advantage out of MFD, you could argue that for some affixes like bolstering sub and sin are more viable but in general outlaw is better in dungeon. the 2 CD of outlaw are very strong for hard pull and the can be reset very fast with TB with MFD reset.

Don't get me wrong both sin and sub are a lot of sun to play in m+ and i've played them in M+8-9 but outlaw is better outside of few situation.

[Animatelol]

Both sin and sub are good in m+, they have some good stuff to offer for them but saying they are better than outlaw is just not true, outlaw as the best toolkit for dungeon; it offers very good cleave, doesn't need any setup, it's the best spec to take advantage out of MFD, you could argue that for some affixes like bolstering sub and sin are more viable but in general outlaw is better in dungeon. the 2 CD of outlaw are very strong for hard pull and the can be reset very fast with TB with MFD reset.

Don't get me wrong both sin and sub are a lot of sun to play in m+ and i've played them in M+8-9 but outlaw is better outside of few situation.

i absolutely agree, it's not better but there is no reason you can't play it outside of the high levels of M+ where every second counts.

that's why i said competitive, not better.

[Master Guns]

The group that we run is:

Tank: DK
Healer: Druid
DPS: Me (ass rogue), Hunter, DH

We do just fine, I've personally done a +7 and beaten the timer and it wasn't really a huge deal. I don't do great AoE, but my single target on every boss is always #1.

People have this gross misunderstanding that everyone needs to be doing 500k DPS on AoE pulls. It just isn't the case. It's not that big of a deal. As long as your group has 1 designated AoE'er, at least up to +7, it's not a deal breaker.

Now, in 10+ I can imagine that yes it might be more of an issue, but I'm not concerned with that because that's not where we are at the moment. I'd probably switch to outlaw for those cases. I've been leveling up my outlaw artifact for that purpose alone.

[luciphear]

if going with AP just use DP on trash, rupture 4 and happy envenom spam and then swop to AP on boss encounters.

[Master Guns]

There's a good trinket that has haste and an AoE poison on use from EN, it can be helpful if your AoE is really suffering

[Deleted]

I have extensively played both Sub and Outlaw in the +7 to +12 range - Outlaw is better, by far. No setup, better toolkit. Both my specs are 686 Ilvl. 25 traits outlaw, 24 Sub.
Outlaw just has more access to their utility due to TB - Yes, sub can follow somewhat on the burst AoE, but suffers when the packs are 2-3 mobs. Outlaw has much more consistent cleave and popping CDs on Outlaw can destroy groups of mobs so insanely fast, where as Sub's CDs don't reinforce much outside of the increased SS damage. I have done +15 runs with another rogue playing assassination along, and he usually clocks in at about ~15% less damage overall, but dies a bit more.

You can DEFINITELY play Assa in m+ and do extremely well. I wouldn't suggest playing Sub in m+... yet. Outlaw is the king, but only by a 10-15% margin.

TL;DR: You *can* play Assa if you're very good at it and you have a legendary that can help your AoE. It shouldn't drag your group down, but it takes a ton more effort and you will still come up slightly short vs an Outlaw rogue. Play Outlaw if you want to min-max. Don't play Subtetly... yet.

Bit off-topic: Seems like Outlaw is losing its place... Assa can almost keep up and people running the right builds will catch up and be even. But those people will also do better ST, so will be more useful for raids than Outlaw in most cases. Subtetly does a ton more ST damage than Outlaw and will only rocket further ahead as we can stack more and more mastery. Sub will even take over in sustained cleave damage. Outlaw will ONLY have "burst AoE" and their toolkit to rely on eventually - I love Outlaw but I can't keep up with the other specs in a raid environment, unless its a fight like Cenarius where I need to have Cloak up often to clear roots and such. The most recent logs also look like this: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10/
I'm not sure how to interpret that... did all the good rogues switch already?

[skindown]

Fucking amazingly good on medium/high keys (4+) because of Subterfuge ( for Garrote spreading, allowing us a faster regen recovery at the start of the adds, making us able to setup the Rupture cleave properly )

But weak on trash mobs for low keys ( 2/3+ )

Fucking amazingly god on every boss, hands down one of the best single targets for them ( defensive utility for himself, unlikely to die/suffer much damage like other classes )

[Tengokuq]

As Assassination, I usally do 300-500k AoE fights, if poison bomb proc once or twice, single target goes from 280-310k~ It's very good on single, but it kinda sucks to depend on poison bomb on trash!

[Moneyshott]

Some of the advice in this thread is just terrible. Outlaw better than Sin? No. MP for mythic+? Absolutely not.
The determining factor of keystones is trash clear. You want subterfuge + Thuggee + EP. A few extra % of single target means nothing if you're dragging your feet on trash.

On pack trash you start in stealth and open: Garrotte - Garrotte - Garrotte - Garrotte - Rupture - FOK. IN the first 4-5 seconds you now have 4+ bleeds up with poisons and more energy pouring in that you know what to do with.
Follow with FoK and Rupture on a main targets then FoK + Envenom spam. With 1 poison bomb you're now pulling 750k+ aoe damage, back to back poison bombs and its well over 1mil DPS.
If you're not terrible you're also prioritizing the opening garrotes on casters to apply multiple silences which brings them into the pack to be tanked and AoEd. You'll find yourself beating out all but the best DHs on AoE in 3+ keystones.

[TS26]

Some of the advice in this thread is just terrible. Outlaw better than Sin? No. MP for mythic+? Absolutely not.
The determining factor of keystones is trash clear. You want subterfuge + Thuggee + EP. A few extra % of single target means nothing if you're dragging your feet on trash.

On pack trash you start in stealth and open: Garrotte - Garrotte - Garrotte - Garrotte - Rupture - FOK. IN the first 4-5 seconds you now have 4+ bleeds up with poisons and more energy pouring in that you know what to do with.
Follow with FoK and Rupture on a main targets then FoK + Envenom spam. With 1 poison bomb you're now pulling 750k+ aoe damage, back to back poison bombs and its well over 1mil DPS.
If you're not terrible you're also prioritizing the opening garrotes on casters to apply multiple silences which brings them into the pack to be tanked and AoEd. You'll find yourself beating out all but the best DHs on AoE in 3+ keystones.

question, why 4 garrotes in the opening?

[Chemii]

I run:

Blood DK
Mistweaver Monk
Sin Rogue (EP, Subterfuge, Exang)
Demon Hunter
MM Hunter

We use drums normally on first boss and last. If the key is low for speed I will play Outlaw. For Sin, you've got to try to proc PB on trash packs as often as possible. It's sometimes a trade of how many ruptures to keep rolling vs Envenom IMO, I've had back to back bombs btw but not often. I hear it has an internal cooldown but to me it seems like a chance.

Also, be liberal with your Kingsbane & Exang cooldowns, you can use them more often than you think on prio targets - just remember to Kingsbane within an Envenom window whilst auto attacking that target.

- - - Updated - - -

question, why 4 garrotes in the opening?

Subterfuge allows you to use Garrote a few times from stealth before incurring a cooldown.

[Tyrgannus]

Looking up patchwork style sim numbers and actually playing often leads to different results.

Assassination seems to provide better results for me at single target. For most bosses I do better damage.
Outlaw seems to be better on 90% of trash areas and a handful of bosses.

I couldn't care less what the numbers say SHOULD happen, I care about practice not theory.

Honestly, the concept that "you're doing it wrong" if you can down all content has always been and will always be absurd to me. If you can kill Mythic Xavius and run Mythic 10 dungeons with a given spec, than it works.

Period.

I'm not a FotM type player though. Buffs and nerf come and go. Nothing is stagnant. Nothing is the best or worst for long. I don't feel like respeccing every hot fix either and I had no problem doing timed strat in classic, bear runs in BC, and of course challenge dungeons in MoP and WoD. Optimal is meaningless to me if I'm still owning the content.