Science must Fall?

[Wyattbw09]

Why does western civilization support this kind of bullshit?

Because science requires openness to ideas. That does not mean all ideas are equally valid, but when we flat out start shutting down thought then we are undermining science ourselves.

They were not at a science conference, or any sort of official professional or academic setting. They were a bunch of kids in a library study space or a empty classroom. This is the kind of place ideas should be pretty free to roam as it were.

She is wrong, and her ideas are quite ill thought out, however, the fact that she was able to say it is a good thing.

[tehealadin]

Maybe he should have posted a trigger warning for you. You talk of projecting, but it is you who managed to twist his words into being about race and gender, when nothing of the kind was even mentioned, or loosely implied.

I'd imagine you're exactly the alt-right type he was refering to.

Yea, I am triggered, hard.

You are right, I am projecting, by bringing up race and gender. Though I suspect I am spot on, that this is why he is criticising those mocking her (gotta defend dat woman of colour, who they concede is saying stupid things). I could be wrong, I admit, I just doubt it.

Yea, I am clearly right wing. I shouldn't rise to it when regressives simply proclaim (and generalise) that people who disagree with them (or in this case, mock the stupidity of someone who is protected) must be right wingers. I always feel disappointed with myself when I do it. Never take the bait.

[volescue]

Why does western civilization support this kind of bullshit? Let them undermine themselves. If they refuse modern education and science, if they don't want GMO food, then let God feed them. All those fit in Darwin's theory. You can call me cruel, racist, etc, but I'm not. If people refuse help, regardless of religion, skin color or part of the world they come from, let them die out.

Religion is the demon in our world. It is destroying countries and civilizations. Middle east, terrorism, poverty, extremely religious part of the world. Africa, terrorism, war, poverty, extremely religious population. South america, poverty, brutal crime, extremely religious population. And that is only MODERN time. Let's not get in the past.

Because the views of some random people in a classroom don't dictate the views of an entire continent.

[Tomservo]

This is why teachers should be armed with wrist smacking rulers.

[Skroe]

Yea, I am triggered, hard.

You are right, I am projecting, by bringing up race and gender. Though I suspect I am spot on, that this is why he is criticising those mocking her (gotta defend dat woman of colour, who they concede is saying stupid things). I could be wrong, I admit, I just doubt it.

Yea, I am clearly right wing. I shouldn't rise to it when regressives simply proclaim (and generalise) that people who disagree with them (or in this case, mock the stupidity of someone who is protected) must be right wingers. I always feel disappointed with myself when I do it. Never take the bait.

You're stunningly

Amazingly.

Agonizingly wrong.

32 year old male, half white, half hispanic. Lives in the wealthy sub-suburbs... probably an upper 10%-er give or take.

Also conservative. Did I mention that? I'm a #NeverTrump Republican.

I stink of SJWerism don't I?

No. It's that the only thing more pathetic than random morons on the internet captured on youtube are the random... somethingerathers... who let that *gasp* there are idiots in the world, piss them off.

This is how the alt-right works. This is EXACTLY how they work. They get triggered by somebody dumb and generalize. This video says nothing about wider science, about schools, about anything. IT says somewhere in America , somebody who is probably an alright person most of the time, said something really dumb. And that is the end of it.

[tehealadin]

Secondly, I am not "annoyed she is being criticized". The interaction between social justice issues and science is obnoxious and has no place in science, along with her and everybody else in that room.

Yea, that isn't really true though, is it?

I'm saying life is so short, and you're getting pissed because some jackass somewhere random said some stupid shit and put it on the internet?

I am not getting pissed. Mocking something dumb is not being pissed.

How about some goddamn perspective? Who gives a fuck. There are 7 billion people in the world. Most of them are as smart as your average Zebra. How is this shocking? How is this worth anybody's time or attention? Even to "draw scorn"? Do you truly have nothing better to do than get pissed off? Is that what your life has become?

I am not getting pissed. I am mocking something dumb. Of course it is of no consequence if this person said something dumb. Most things are not worth anyone's time or attention. Seriously, there are 7 billion people on the world. How is a few of them mocking an idiot on the internet worthy of your time? It is of literally no consequence to you if someone mocks this person. Why waste your time defending this individual?

And yes, only the alt-right uses phases like the 'regressive left'. You realize that phrase makes basically no sense? It's like a really stupid person thought the only opposite of "progressive" is "regressive". ZING! Or something? There are actual real terms to apply to that group of people.

This isn't true. They are called regressive because their ideas are regressive, they promote viewing/judging people by their gender/race. Many have progressive attitudes but don't subscribe to identity politics in the way that they do. It is a label to describe people with a certain political ideology.

Like I want to buy anyone pissed off on this an actual computer science text book or something. It's just more rage-generating junk for already angry people by inclination to get angrier over. Like you really have nothing better to do? Any of you? This is how you choose to live your life?

I don't think many here are angered by this. Link me posts showing genuine anger. One or two has shown some general anger, towards religion, but overall, the tone is more mocking and disbelief. Also, you don't need to buy me a computer science text book, I have several.

And you do realise the absurdity in invoking the "you got nothing better to do" argument in defense of this clown, when it can be so easily turned on you, have you nothing better to do than "rage" on those mocking her? So linking this idiotic video, and people being like "wtf", this is a waste of time, and people need to be criticised for wasting their time like this, but, it isn't a waste of time to make this criticism? This is why I feel my projection isn't too far off the mark (I don't imagine you defend all idiots like this equally), the way that you are more or less engaging in the behaviour you criticise in others makes me think that yea, you are annoyed that she is being criticised. You go out of your way to articulate your annoyance, and are clear that it is because she is being criticised, and this doesn't fit your criteria for being worthy of attention (as opposed to, strangers on a website sharing and mocking a video of another stranger saying dumb things, this is worth while paying attention to, because reasons not related to the "identity" of the stranger in the video).

- - - Updated - - -

This is how the alt-right works. This is EXACTLY how they work. They get triggered by somebody dumb and generalize. This video says nothing about wider science, about schools, about anything. IT says somewhere in America , somebody who is probably an alright person most of the time, said something really dumb. And that is the end of it.

But what if the person saying the dumb thing is a white cis male? Exactly.

People saying dumb shit and getting crap for it is not an alt right phenomenon. If some redneck is spewing idiotic nonsense, about gawd and science, and someone linked it here to mock, I really doubt you would be in saying "this is a waste of your time, stop it!!! ALT RIGHTERS!!".

[Deleted]

I love seeing other scientists trying to suggest philosophy has no place in science.

I do agree with your main point though.

It doesnt though. The very definition of science is that its based on hard facts and everything needs to be proven. Philosophy on the other hand is subjective.

[tehealadin]

As someone who just joined this conversation you look like you have more than a few rustled jimmies.

You are right, my jimmies have been rustled. I don't like being called right wing. Most of my political views are left leaning. Like I said- I shouldn't have fell for the bait, and I did, and yea, I am aware that I am making myself look like a bit of a tool by even continuing this argument. I am very much aware of this.

[tehealadin]

Imagine if the left right divide was a shifting one and that your views are becoming more right wing.

I am spitting the bait back out. You can see that getting called right wing annoys me, so you are going to use it to wind me up. And I am making myself look like a twat for taking the bait. Never mind, I don't want your views on it.

[theWocky]

Welcome to South Africa.

Brainless Buffoons.

My girlfriend is on the final semester after five years of part-time study, FINAL exams after starting her bachelors degree at age 35.

She works and studies at NMMU (Nelson Mandela Metro University) and has been off work for over 4 weeks now. Staff & Students are threatened, so campus is shut down. She and thousands of others can't write their finals.

Recently, the protesting students threatened to hold Wildlife hostage and slaughter Zebras each day till their demands are met:

[Ryme]

"regressive left"

Term isn't limited to the right, I know a lot of people on the left that use it.

[Deleted]

Science is a part of philosophy. Interpretation of facts is subjective.

- - - Updated - - -



Imagine if the left right divide was a shifting one and that your views are becoming more right wing.

Interpretation of facts is subjective but you know what isn't? Proof that your interpretation is correct.

[Ryme]

If it's something alex jones would say it's not leftist.

Oh yeah, it's typically a pejorative to the far left so it wouldn't be a leftist thing to say I guess.

[Deleted]

Science is a part of philosophy. Interpretation of facts is subjective.

It isn't. 2+2=4. You can easily prove it if you take 2 sticks and 2 sticks, put them together and count them. No other way to interpret that. Obviously it's an oversimplified example but if you're aware of what the scientific method is, you can't just claim stuff and then discuss what it means.. you have to show it in an experiment and be able to repeat the experiment and get the same result.

[Dezerte]

They can join the rest of the crew of "science skeptics".

[ranzino]

Proof which is also something that is subjectively determined.

Imagine if objectivity was an ideal.

Proof cannot be subjective. Proof isnt something you can argue about.

[Deleted]

And yes, only the alt-right uses phases like the 'regressive left'. You realize that phrase makes basically no sense? It's like a really stupid person thought the only opposite of "progressive" is "regressive". ZING! Or something? There are actual real terms to apply to that group of people.

To be fair there's some good reasons why it sticks. For one it is a play on words and secondly it makes sense. The left as most people see it is supposed to lead to progress i.e. we don't stone gays, blacks don't ride in the back of the bus, etc. When there's a bunch of people who instead of trying to solve issues(i.e. there's only so many women in research etc. which personally i don't think is an issue as from my PoV the playing field seems even) you end up with things like women quotas. Instead of going after the underlying cause of some issue the go-to solution is "You're racist/misogynist/other_thing if you don't hire x% of minority/gender/etc. regardless of qualifications" calling that group of people regressive makes a lot of sense.

It's the same thing for the alt-right. You've got a bunch of people saying racist things, calling for the KKK to become the police, gas all the jews and all manner of bullshit. Now whenever someone says something along the lines of "We need to restrict immigration or only let qualified people immigrate" most of the time they're labeled as alt-right.

in terms of the people that those 2 terms represent you're looking at pretty much the same thing - a small number of people with ridiculous beliefs who make it really easy to assign a stigma to the term which can then be used to hand-wave anything you disagree with.

[Prothynyas]

is she serious ?

[Harakka]

Wow, we still got this kind of mentality in 2016?

Did you see how the panel started laughing when the guy said "it isnt true" about her comment about black magic being able to send a bolt of lightning to someone. They really belive this nonsense. It makes me sad to see people are still at this level of ignorance. This is also a dangerous type of ignorance because they are actively trying to push this mentality to others. ; Belive in what you like, its your right. As long as its not affecting anyone else.

[Azadina]

To be fair there's some good reasons why it sticks. For one it is a play on words and secondly it makes sense. The left as most people see it is supposed to lead to progress i.e. we don't stone gays, blacks don't ride in the back of the bus, etc. When there's a bunch of people who instead of trying to solve issues(i.e. there's only so many women in research etc. which personally i don't think is an issue as from my PoV the playing field seems even) you end up with things like women quotas. Instead of going after the underlying cause of some issue the go-to solution is "You're racist/misogynist/other_thing if you don't hire x% of minority/gender/etc. regardless of qualifications" calling that group of people regressive makes a lot of sense.

It's the same thing for the alt-right. You've got a bunch of people saying racist things, calling for the KKK to become the police, gas all the jews and all manner of bullshit. Now whenever someone says something along the lines of "We need to restrict immigration or only let qualified people immigrate" most of the time they're labeled as alt-right.

in terms of the people that those 2 terms represent you're looking at pretty much the same thing - a small number of people with ridiculous beliefs who make it really easy to assign a stigma to the term which can then be used to hand-wave anything you disagree with.

Too bad that example of wording is almost never used. Even here on this forum, it's usually some derogatory terms instead. There's a clear difference between that wording if it was actually used, and "rapefugees", "muslim invasion" and so forth what is actually used by the people in question.