France wants Russia on war crimes charges

[Kellhound]

Nope, even as recently as a few years ago he was still adamant that it was a spyplane.


He didn't know it was a 747, just that it looked like a boeing and looked like a civilian airliner (which is how he expected a spy plane to look).


Yes but second rate pilots stationed in the middle of nowhere didn't.


How do you know? it's not like being seen visually is of major concern to a spyplane, actual spies often dress to blend in.


Nobody says they acted perfectly, but they acted infinitely better than the comparable US incident that drew nowhere near as much condemnation from the west (which was the point). Hence why that accident is classed as a shoot down and this one is classed as pilot error resulting in a shoot down.

The fact that the Su-15 didn't have any tracer rounds, failed to make contact with the plane, the pilot mistook the plane for what he expected to see and that the plane chose to execute a maneuver immediately after being ordered to comply with instructions are all tragic but the main cause was still the pilots repeatedly screwing up for hours.

He know it was a 747, he clearly states he saw two rows of windows. Only the 747 had that feature at the time. RC-135s only have a couple of windows total. Any interceptor pilot would have gone through aircraft recognition. Military aircraft that are intentionally violating enemy airspace generally try to not make it easy to locate them.

I would not say the USSR acted any better than the US did, they were intent on shooting KAL007 down even if it reached international water.

[Ulmita]

I know you dont, you lack the knowledge needed to.
Because we do and they haven't, but I know your grasp of geopolitics is too elementary to understand that.

But i know your grasp of humanity is too elementary to understand that what you are doing in middle east is horrific.

[Skroe]

But i know your grasp of humanity is too elementary to understand that what you are doing in middle east is horrific.

The principle people to play for that are:

-The War Criminal Vladmir Putin
-The Iranian Regime
-Bashar Al-Assad


Three parties you've repeatedly cheered on.

Your a walking, talking bit of irony. You oppose the United States because of what you call it's 'war mongering' actions, but threw your lot in with something even worse. Have you looked at Syria? What the terrible trio above have unleashed within Syria in the last five years far eclipses anything that happened in Iraq in terms of human displacement, death toll, physical destruction and so forth.

It's like three times the horror and half the time, yet you cheer it on because you see it as poking America in the eye.

[Elim Garak]

What the terrible trio above have unleashed within Syria

You should reduce the cool-aid intake.
It is USA that unleashed rebels in Syria who started all of that. Assad and his allies are just containing the mess you've created, succeeding in it and that pisses you off.

[caervek]

He know it was a 747, he clearly states he saw two rows of windows. Only the 747 had that feature at the time.

You're making assumptions now, how can a person who has never seen a 747 identify one based on window configurations when he doesn't know how many windows a 747 has? At the end of the day we can never know for certain what the pilot knew/saw/though, we can just go off the accident investigators report.

I would not say the USSR acted any better than the US did

Well, it's not like it was strictly the USA/USSR as entities that acted, it was humans, the thing is though when you break it down and ignore the countries involved the two situations can be summarized as so:


Situation A: Ship hears reports of foreign gunboats congregating in foreign waters, captain sends helicopter to go see whats going on. Helicopter flies into foerign airspace and right up to gunboats, gunboats panic and fire warning shots. Helicopter returns to ship and says was shot at, ship goes to fight gunboats, ship then invades foreign waters and shoots down a commercial airliner in a commercial air corridor because the captain decides that just because it identifies itself as commercial doesn't prove it is. In his defense he was preoccupied fighting a sea battle with the gunboats he had attacked, and his radar operator did at first tell him the plane was descending when it was actually climbing.

Result: The ships owners defend it's actions, refuse to apologize and gives the captain a medal.


Situation B: Pilots mis-configure their aircraft and fly in the wrong direction, despite flying for some time and experiencing different weather to that reported by other planes on the route they believe they are on they continue and after crossing paths with a spyplane they cross into the prohibited airspace of COBRA. COBRA assume from the flight paths that the plane that has violated their airspace is the aforementioned spyplane, as the plane flies over multiple military sites numerous fighters are scrambled to intercept it. One finally catches up and attempts to make radio contact, it then also attempts to signal by firing it's cannon (this fails as the cannon has no tracer rounds installed), finally it orders the plane to follow [heading]. At this point the pilots finally decide something's not quite right and request an altitude change from their tower, they then begin climbing. The effect of climbing causes the plane to reduce speed rapidly and the fighter overshoots it, the fighter pilot assumes this is an evasive maneuver in direct response to the order to change heading, he re-engages the plane and destroys it.

Result: COBRA then attempt to deny everything and it's years before the full story ever comes to light via the investigation report.

When you remove all mention of USA/Russia from the summaries it's easy for anyone to see that Situation A is worse by a large margin, yet it was Situation B that got multiple times more condemnation/negativity by our media, politicians/etc (which was the original point of discussion if we can go back to that).

[namecraft]

fug politics, I'll choose who I hate myself

[Flarelaine]

France is the most genocidal country in the world. They are real bloodthirsty warmongers, no other country comes even close.
They have been like that since that fucker Napoleon.

Read up on history. France has been starting wars of conquest centuries before Napoleon. Just like anyone ever who was strong enough to push their neighbours around.

Has anything good EVER come from France?

Laicité.
Code Civil.
Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen.
More writers, poets, composers and artists than I care to list for you and twice as much again that found refuge or inspiration in France.

[Ulmita]

The principle people to play for that are:

-The War Criminal Vladmir Putin
-The Iranian Regime
-Bashar Al-Assad


Three parties you've repeatedly cheered on.

Your a walking, talking bit of irony. You oppose the United States because of what you call it's 'war mongering' actions, but threw your lot in with something even worse. Have you looked at Syria? What the terrible trio above have unleashed within Syria in the last five years far eclipses anything that happened in Iraq in terms of human displacement, death toll, physical destruction and so forth.

It's like three times the horror and half the time, yet you cheer it on because you see it as poking America in the eye.

The only war criminals are the Bush and Clinton presidents.

Al-Assad says get rid of terrorists, outsiders and we take country to elections SUPERVISED BY INTERNATIONAL MONITORS and let Syrian people decide their future. He wont accept foreign appointed governments and GOOD FOR HIM

Have i looked at Syria? HAVE YOU looked at Syria? Your country IS OPENLY SUPPORTING TERRORISTS AND FUELING THE WAR BY PROVIDING THEM WITH TRAINING, SUPPORT, FUNDING AND WEAPONS.

Russia REPETITIVELY asked USA to distinguish al-nursa from opposition AND YOU DENY OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

Please Skroe, go to an elementary school and try to preach your BULLCRAP there. Maybe some kids believe you.

[Skroe]

The only war criminals are the Bush and Clinton presidents.

Al-Assad says get rid of terrorists, outsiders and we take country to elections SUPERVISED BY INTERNATIONAL MONITORS and let Syrian people decide their future. He wont accept foreign appointed governments and GOOD FOR HIM

Have i looked at Syria? HAVE YOU looked at Syria? Your country IS OPENLY SUPPORTING TERRORISTS AND FUELING THE WAR BY PROVIDING THEM WITH TRAINING, SUPPORT, FUNDING AND WEAPONS.

Russia REPETITIVELY asked USA to distinguish al-nursa from opposition AND YOU DENY OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

Please Skroe, go to an elementary school and try to preach your BULLCRAP there. Maybe some kids believe you.

Hey don't blame us for who the Gulf Arabs give money to! But frankly, it's Afghanistan all over again. Messing with Russia is more important than fighting terrorism.

Yeah it's a terrible shame the rebels have chewed up and spit out large portions of Assad's army and shot down Russian helicopters.

Here's hoping President HRC sends some anti-aircraft weapons. That would be a small bit of justice for all the terrible things the War Criminal Vladmir Putin made possible.

[Slant]

Yo, @Skroe... 9999 is what we call a schnapsnumber in Germany. You gotta buy us a round now.

Also, let them do their talking, they dismantle their own arguments. Just keep collecting evidence for later.

[Skroe]

Yo, @Skroe... 9999 is what we call a schnapsnumber in Germany. You gotta buy us a round now.

Also, let them do their talking, they dismantle their own arguments. Just keep collecting evidence for later.

LOL. Gladly!

Ahhh the Putinistas. I honestly don't know what I did on MMO-OT before them.

I think if the War Criminal Vladmir Putin actually ate a child... like devoured one like the cthulhian monster he is... they'd justify it. I really do.

[Crispin]

But i know your grasp of humanity is too elementary to understand that what you are doing in middle east is horrific.

This is coming from the guy, who thinks it's ok to bomb civilians, women and children in Aleppo "cus they could have left"

[Ulmita]

This is coming from the guy, who thinks it's ok to bomb civilians, women and children in Aleppo "cus they could have left"

This coming from a guy that can distinguish between terror sponsor nations and those who fight back.

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I think if the War Criminal Vladmir Putin actually ate a child... like devoured one like the cthulhian monster he is... they'd justify it. I really do.

It would be less horrific than what your war criminal presidents have done to Muslims in middle east.

And for the millionth time try to put this in your little head. I dont align with putin, i align with anyone that is trying to stop USA warmongering death machine as any other person who wants peace would do.

So if for example Erdogan was trying to stop you from destroying another country, i would align with him and turkey. God it? Simple enough for you to understand?

[Flarelaine]

It would be less horrific than what your war criminal presidents have done to Muslims in middle east.

You do know, I hope, that you have just proven him right.

[Ulmita]

You do know, I hope, that you have just proven him right.

It was an exaggeration just to emphasize that killing 2 million Muslims in 10 years is not tolerable. And they are still going strong killing every day people in middle east. Thats the problem

[Skroe]

You do know, I hope, that you have just proven him right.

He's not very quick. Be patient with him.

I mean seriously... he actually waltz right into that one.

I wish that was my 9999'th post.

[Flarelaine]

It was an exaggeration just to emphasize that killing 2 million Muslims in 10 years is not tolerable. And they are still going strong killing every day people in middle east. Thats the problem

Well, I may be reading the wrong news, but it appears to me that the people killing Muslims in the Middle East are... *gasp* other Muslims.

[Skroe]

Well, I may be reading the wrong news, but it appears to me that the people killing Muslims in the Middle East are... *gasp* other Muslims.

Shocking I know....

[Ulmita]

He's not very quick. Be patient with him.

I mean seriously... he actually waltz right into that one.

I wish that was my 9999'th post.

You assume i give 1 fuck about your childish elementary games.

Get off middle east. STOP KILLING PEOPLE



USA sponsoring terrorists, then call Russia war criminals hahahahha

USA record of 2 million deaths in 10 years, call Russia to end air strikes against child beheaders

You really ought to stop posting and go outside protest for peace

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Well, I may be reading the wrong news, but it appears to me that the people killing Muslims in the Middle East are... *gasp* other Muslims.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post42794829

[Skroe]

You assume i give 1 fuck about your childish elementary games.

Get off middle east. STOP KILLING PEOPLE



USA sponsoring terrorists, then call Russia war criminals hahahahha

USA record of 2 million deaths in 10 years, call Russia to end air strikes against child beheaders

You really ought to stop posting and go outside protest for peace

No. I wholeheartedly welcome a deeply antagonistic relationship with the War Criminal Vladmir Putin's rogue state / gas station. The world just isn't big enough for the both of us. It is better this way.

The only true peace is the absence of the causes of conflict. That means Russia minus it's War Criminal President and on its knees. Or Russia getting the Yugoslavia treatment. Or both.

This is the part by the way where you start talking about S-400, SATAN ICBM... or will it be Armata today?